Extending kitchen, range not by the wall ok?

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Forum -> Household Management -> Kosher Kitchen

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amother

Apricot

Tue, Mar 29 2016, 10:36 am

We are looking into the house that has a small installed kitchen that must be added on to. The stove, sink and counters are now l-shaped. I want to make it into a U, which there is space for.

The kitchen layout is problematic. It has a lot of "breaks" that interrupt the flow of the walls, and basically the wall space is already taken by existing built in counter, minimal appliances and fridge/pantry cabinets. These huge windows/doors or openings can't be closed off as they lead to otherwise inaccessible rooms or deck.

Basically, there is space to add onto the L and turn it into a U but this space is not backed by a wall. I think you can put some barrier between counters, sink and eat-in area, kind of partial backsplash or whatever it's called. However, I need to add another stove as well and don't know if it's possible without a piece of wall to put it against. Could they put in some half-height partition or something?

For the past few years I've had two stoves, and even though I don't use both during the week, before Shabbos and yomtov I cook a lot, not sure I could get away with one range.
Plus the counter layout with the one stove that is there now would be impossible.

It would be much easier to do counter layout with 2 ranges: I make milchig, fleshing and pareve counters adjacent to stoves, which makes a huge difference when I cook. I now have a pareve counter away from the stoves, and there is a low of shlepping, shuffling around, dripping water on the floor and juggling utensils etc when cooking pareve.

Your thoughts?

Thanks

Tue, Mar 29 2016, 10:44 am

It is possible to put a stovetop into an island without a wall behind it, but I have never done it so I don't know much about it. Ask a contractor to find out what is possible in your layout.

amother

Apricot

Tue, Mar 29 2016, 10:53 am

cm wrote:

It is possible to put a stovetop into an island without a wall behind it, but I have never done it so I don't know much about it. Ask a contractor to find out what is possible in your layout.

Oh wow, I never knew that.
I wouldn't be able to do it exactly this way because of safety concerns and layout limitations but it's really good to know it's done. If it's possible then they must be able to do it the way I envision it.

I just wonder, if it is the same for electric and gas ranges. Mine would be gas, so there has to be a hookup behind the stove.

Eta: you are right!

I just googled it and see that it actually is probably a solution. I didn't realize island doesn't have to sit smack in the middle of the kitchen. I could have it as a leg of the U, and try to match the existing countertop for a seamless look.

Looks like what I need is called "gas range island with bar top". Yippee thanks.

pause

Tue, Mar 29 2016, 10:54 am

You can do a small two-burner countertop range and a micro-convection oven can be installed anywhere in a kitchen. It can be on the counter, over the other oven or in an open cabinet.

amother

Apricot

Tue, Mar 29 2016, 11:20 am

pause wrote:

You can do a small two-burner countertop range and a micro-convection oven can be installed anywhere in a kitchen. It can be on the counter, over the other oven or in an open cabinet.

Thanks I'll look into it countertop range.

I was actually thinking about a double oven range, with smaller milchig oven and larger fleshing one.

I'll think if micro-convection might work, but probably not in this kitchen. There is a limited counter space and I really don't want to get a separate milchig one, as my kids would want to eat grilled cheese three times daily. I can't put it above the stove, as im not tall and would have to go up a stool every time I am using it.

little_mage

Tue, Mar 29 2016, 6:26 pm

My parents have a gas range on an island in their kitchen.

The Happy Wife

Tue, Mar 29 2016, 6:34 pm

My gas range is not on a wall, just part of an L shape that sticks out from the wall. It's just a different style of range. I don't remember what it's called, but it has the controls in the front rather than a panel sticking up in the back.

Rubber Ducky

Tue, Mar 29 2016, 7:43 pm

You can put a slide-in gas range in an island, but you will want to have an island range hood above it.

Here's a link to a double oven slide-in gas range: http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-b......html

amother

Scarlet

Tue, Mar 29 2016, 8:29 pm

I have my dairy free standing range on the back of a bar height eating area.

In other words my L shape kitchen was turned into a U shape kitchen by adding the bar height counter that's in the living room, it's open concept

amother

Apricot

Tue, Mar 29 2016, 8:33 pm

The Happy Wife wrote:

Is the gas hookup line in the back somehow concealed?

amother

Apricot

Tue, Mar 29 2016, 8:36 pm

Rubber Ducky wrote:

You can put a slide-in gas range in an island, but you will want to have an island range hood above it.

Here's a link to a double oven slide-in gas range: http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-b......html

Rubberducky, you killed me with this hi-tech looking monster of a stove!! And it's like 2.5k. I actually saw an ikea one for about 1200.

In an island though, how do they get the gas line in and hide it?

amother

Apricot

Tue, Mar 29 2016, 8:38 pm

amother wrote:

It sounds like what I'm hoping to do.
I guess the pros know how to hook it up.

Let's just wait and see if we actually get the house )

amother

Apricot

Tue, Mar 29 2016, 8:55 pm

While we're at it, does the following layout make sense to you (going clockwise):

First leg: 15/18" counter, stove, corner counter
These I'm thinking to keep parve, for all baking, salads, veggie dishes.

Base of u: continuing the corner counter, sink( good for washing vegetables right by the parve counter); approx.27" counter (with fleshing dishwasher underneath).
This sink and counter would be fleshing. I currently use one 24" section and it's enough.
Then I want to put stove #2 (accessible from fleshing counter) with double fleshing and milchig oven, then single corner cabinet.

which would get us to the second leg of the U, with some milchig counter space (double dishwasher underneath) and a sink.

The milchig area would border on the eat-in area of the kitchen. We mostly use our kitchen table for milchig breakfasts now, so for the hectic time it's most convenient to have dairy section by the breakfast area.

It makes sense to me except the fact that fleshing and milchig would share the stove.
I now have a milchig stove (usually using one or two burners only). I never have to clean the "spare" burners but the frequently used ones may get quite dirty from Mac-n-cheese occasionally falling out of the pot as I scoop them out.

On My current fleshing stive I may use one or more burners like one for frying supper schnitzel or three making Shabbos dishes, while parve pots are cooking on the other stove so they don't get splattered by sizzling meat.

Would it be inconvenient to have a shared fleshig/milchig stove? I know I know, our grandmothers didn't have 3 stoves, and I myself lived for many years with one stove, one sink and almost no counters. But it was not convenient, esp. Cooking for a big family ka'h. To me convenience matters here because it translates into efficiency, both in prep, serving and cleaning. Which is a necessity because of limited resources, time being one of them.

So what do you think?

amother

Apricot

Tue, Mar 29 2016, 9:02 pm

Op here, I guess I'll start a spinoff on layout to get more responses.

Thank you ladies for your advice re stove!!

Rubber Ducky

Wed, Mar 30 2016, 12:05 am

amother wrote:

That Ikea one is freestanding (ie., it has a high back), not a slide-in. Link: http://m.ikea.com/us/en/catalo.....561/. In an island or peninsula you would generally use a slide-in. Yes, they cost more.

In an island you would have base cabinets behind the stove. The island would be at least 3' deep, and wide enough to have some counter on both sides of the range. The gas line would come up through the floor at the rear of the range.

OOTBubby

Wed, Mar 30 2016, 9:34 am

In my previous home I had a cooktop (for milchig) in my island. It wasn't vented at all even though it probably should have been. I had young kids at the time and it didn't seem at all dangerous. However, looking back, it seems like it must have been. I am not doing that again in the new home I am building (which b'H is almost finished!) -- I'm keeping the cooktops on the regular counters, but I do have a built-in under the counter oven in my island.

The Happy Wife

Wed, Mar 30 2016, 9:54 am

amother wrote:

There would at least be a cover panel behind the stove so you would have room to connect the gas and it would to be visible.

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