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Being judgemental
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 20 2016, 6:36 am
princessleah wrote:
If you don't mind, can you point me to the source you are using where it discusses the halacha in which frum people are obligated to shun other Jews who are mechallel Shabbat?

Thank you.


The rambam is pretty harsh towards apikorsim. See the end of the first Halacha here http://m.chabad.org/library/ar.....n.htm
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mo5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 20 2016, 6:50 am
marina wrote:
The rambam is pretty harsh towards apikorsim. See the end of the first Halacha here http://m.chabad.org/library/ar.....n.htm

The question then would be- what is the halachic definition of an apikores?
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 20 2016, 7:00 am
mo5 wrote:
The question then would be- what is the halachic definition of an apikores?


And I'm not saying an OTD person qualifies. I'm just pointing out where Seas may be coming from. If an apikorus's life is not worth saving acc to the rambam, perhaps Seas thinks this is enough for her not to be friends w OTD pple.
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Seas




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 20 2016, 8:33 am
princessleah wrote:
If you don't mind, can you point me to the source you are using where it discusses the halacha in which frum people are obligated to shun other Jews who are mechallel Shabbat?

Thank you.


I never claimed this is halacha (I'm also not saying it isn't), only my personal feelings.

To all those who preach at me about ahavas Yisroel and loving all Jews regardless, I pose this question:
Do you have a personal 'red line'? Is there anything so abhorrent that if someone would do that you wouldn't be able to bring yourselves to befriend them any longer?

If there is, our debate isn't whether ahavas Yisroel trumps all, only where one should draw the line. I'll thank you very much to allow me to define my own standards.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Wed, Apr 20 2016, 12:09 pm
Maya wrote:
So you want to be in denial and call it a few rotten apples? That's fine, but it's not the reality.

so basically whoever doesnt see things your way is in denial about reality...
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 20 2016, 12:15 pm
amother wrote:
so basically whoever doesnt see things your way is in denial about reality...

Yeah basically Rolling Eyes
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amother
Coral


 

Post Wed, Apr 20 2016, 12:20 pm
Maya wrote:
Yeah basically Rolling Eyes

no different than seas then. each to their own I guess Rolling Eyes
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 20 2016, 12:26 pm
amother wrote:
no different than seas then. each to their own I guess Rolling Eyes

Guess you can't read sarcasm that well.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Wed, Apr 20 2016, 1:09 pm
Maya wrote:
Guess you can't read sarcasm that well.

not on a flat piece of paper (errr screen I mean)
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Wed, Apr 20 2016, 2:04 pm
Seas wrote:
I

If there is, our debate isn't whether ahavas Yisroel trumps all, only where one should draw the line. I'll thank you very much to allow me to define my own standards.


Define your own standards however you'd like.

But please don't expect everyone here to keep to the standards you've created - for yourself, and post hurtful comments when people don't do what is right for you.
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amother
Blush


 

Post Wed, Apr 20 2016, 6:34 pm
From what I understand, people that go off the Derech are either in the category of "tinok sheneshbau" a child that doesn't know better. They did not receive a proper education that would allow them to appreciate shabbos and torah and mitzvos

If they go otd because of a trauma , abuse etc they don't either fall under the category of an apikoreis as described by the rambam
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mo5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 20 2016, 10:11 pm
Seas wrote:
I never claimed this is halacha (I'm also not saying it isn't), only my personal feelings.

To all those who preach at me about ahavas Yisroel and loving all Jews regardless, I pose this question:
Do you have a personal 'red line'? Is there anything so abhorrent that if someone would do that you wouldn't be able to bring yourselves to befriend them any longer?

If there is, our debate isn't whether ahavas Yisroel trumps all, only where one should draw the line. I'll thank you very much to allow me to define my own standards.


I think one that Halacha is supposed to
override personal feelings.
So even if you feel that you should be 'drawing a line' if the Halacha is that you should be practicing ahavas Yisroel (the way Aharon hakohen did- Ohev es habriyos- he loved those people who's only positive attribute was that they were hashems creations!) then even if it doesn't feel right, that's what one has to do.
Perhaps consult a competent practicing rav for guidance in this area before you act based on your own feelings only.
You may be surprised.
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Butterfly




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 21 2016, 4:06 am
mo5 wrote:
I think one that Halacha is supposed to
override personal feelings.
So even if you feel that you should be 'drawing a line' if the Halacha is that you should be practicing ahavas Yisroel (the way Aharon hakohen did- Ohev es habriyos- he loved those people who's only positive attribute was that they were hashems creations!) then even if it doesn't feel right, that's what one has to do.
Perhaps consult a competent practicing rav for guidance in this area before you act based on your own feelings only.
You may be surprised.

Couldn't like this enough!
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