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Any Rabbi Abadi followers here?
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chavamom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2014, 3:06 pm
My neighbor follows R. Abadi. No one I know (except people who don't eat out at all) has a problem eating there. Obviously, Pesach is a different issue b/c of Sephardi/Ashkenazi minhagim.
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Peanut2




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2014, 4:07 pm
Huh?

What is going on here?

Non-hechshered does not mean non-kosher. There aren't any rabbis who say it's okay to eat non-kosher cheese. But ask European imamothers and you will find out that in many places people go by lists of what's kosher and what's not. It really threw me off since I am used to the American and Israeli way of just checking a hechsher. I hate lists. But they exist.

And my DH is makpid on certain things, but just because I see people buying things we don't buy doesn't mean I think their kitchens are treif. I don't ask people where they got their meat when invited out. If people are frum then I am supposed to trust their kashrut.

To the amother who thinks otherwise - please check with your rav.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2014, 4:31 pm
Peanut2 wrote:
Huh?

What is going on here?

Non-hechshered does not mean non-kosher. There aren't any rabbis who say it's okay to eat non-kosher cheese. But ask European imamothers and you will find out that in many places people go by lists of what's kosher and what's not. It really threw me off since I am used to the American and Israeli way of just checking a hechsher. I hate lists. But they exist.

And my DH is makpid on certain things, but just because I see people buying things we don't buy doesn't mean I think their kitchens are treif. I don't ask people where they got their meat when invited out. If people are frum then I am supposed to trust their kashrut.

To the amother who thinks otherwise - please check with your rav.


You're wrong.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2014, 6:42 pm
OP - you'll have to make a lot of your own decisions with your husband for your own family, and SB issues should be treated with compromise ideally I think always. There is middle ground to hold by some areas, not others (I.e. OK to glass dishes being for milch/fleishig, no to ever eating from a subway restaurant, yes to getting coffee from anywhere etc…). Figure out what you both really want and try to pick battles based on that.

We had an issue that we held by something Rav Abadi OK’d (not mentioning what to try to avoid starting more debates here) and the rav of our community did not agree with. He stated that he didn’t know or want to know whether or not there was a way the item were permissible – he just knew it wasn’t accepted by mainstream – therefore he didn’t want to get into whether or not it was technically OK.

The community Rav did ask why we would buy such a product when a kosher version exists – but the kosher version is much worse nutritionally and double the price (and has had mold on it the day I’ve bought it, something unheard of on the non-hashgacha’d version). Again he wasn’t willing to look into whether or not it was OK or not, just there was an attitude if there is something that has hashgacha, why would you consider something that doesn’t?

We mentioned this to our Rav at the time who taught us Rav Abadi’s psakim and he was outraged. His attitude was, “Why would we want to be supporting the corrupt kashrus industry when we don’t have to?” and, “How many bodek items have you severly overpaid for that have been recalled for infestation?” and, “How many times have you bought cholov yisrael foods that were expired before you reached home?”

That Rav said we should do a protest, and go sit in the community Rabbi’s driveway and eat the food to make him reconsider his choice to be ignorant of kosher food that doesn’t have hashgacha.
Now that’s not our style, we weren’t looking to make a point or do a protest. But that could be how your husband feels – that why would you support an industry that makes inferior products generally at higher prices that are harder to find – if there’s no reason that you need to? Esp. with the backing of a major Rav saying it’s not necessary?

If you weren’t anon OP I’d love to go into more detail on how we’ve compromised on these issues. Hatzlacha!
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2014, 7:02 pm
Peanut2 wrote:
amother wrote:
Huh?

What is going on here?

Non-hechshered does not mean non-kosher. There aren't any rabbis who say it's okay to eat non-kosher cheese. But ask European imamothers and you will find out that in many places people go by lists of what's kosher and what's not. It really threw me off since I am used to the American and Israeli way of just checking a hechsher. I hate lists. But they exist.

And my DH is makpid on certain things, but just because I see people buying things we don't buy doesn't mean I think their kitchens are treif. I don't ask people where they got their meat when invited out. If people are frum then I am supposed to trust their kashrut.

To the amother who thinks otherwise - please check with your rav.


You're wrong.


Actually, she's correct.

And you cite any example of an Orthodox rabbi OKing "treif" cheese. Not non-heckshered. Not "you wouldn't eat that." But treif.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2014, 7:40 pm
Peanut2 wrote:
Non-hechshered does not mean non-kosher.

Actually, that's debatable. Most large companies get hechsherim, not because they care about kosher, but because non-Jews see a hechsher as being a quality stamp.

If a product does not have a hechsher, many times (I don't want to say most) it is because there is a real halachic question about its kashrus.

The leniencies that Rav Abadi proposes are fairly radical, and it's important to be aware of that. Although a product may use only trace amounts of a non-kosher product, "Ain Mevatlin Isur Lechatchila" - we aren't allowed to use the leniency of bittul in 1/60 on purpose. According to most Rabonim, many trace ingredients (such as the oil used to grease the lines so raisins don't clump together) are NOT botul, as they are an integral part of the product, and they didn't just fall in there by mistake.

Rav Abadi may have lots of basis for his opinions, and one who follows him is certainly "covered," but many non-hechshered products ARE considered treif by most Rabbonim.

It is very important to understand and respect this. It's not just a question of a more lenient hechsher, it is a fundamental disagreement in Jewish law, akin to an Ashkenazi eating at a Sefardi's home on Pesach.
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Odelyah




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2014, 9:16 pm
Just because you follow his psakim, doesn't mean you CAN'T buy Kedem.

Thumbs Up

This is sort of a tangent but relates to the assumption in a lot of these posts that the non-hechshered food is of better quality. A few years ago at Pesach time Welch's produced a Kosher (l'Pesach) run of their grape juice. Many people (my family included) eagerly bought some (after all it's Welch's grape juice! And it's kosher! It was a major event in kosher history, like Oreos and M and M's becoming kosher). And guess what? I'm pretty sure that was the only year it happened. You know why? Because the Welch's was nowhere near as good as Kedem! Who would've thought? So everyone tried it ONCE and then went back to buying Kedem. And it wasn't worth it for Welch's to do it again because nobody wanted it.
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SplitPea




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 21 2014, 4:15 pm
Odelyah wrote:
Just because you follow his psakim, doesn't mean you CAN'T buy Kedem.

Thumbs Up

This is sort of a tangent but relates to the assumption in a lot of these posts that the non-hechshered food is of better quality. A few years ago at Pesach time Welch's produced a Kosher (l'Pesach) run of their grape juice. Many people (my family included) eagerly bought some (after all it's Welch's grape juice! And it's kosher! It was a major event in kosher history, like Oreos and M and M's becoming kosher). And guess what? I'm pretty sure that was the only year it happened. You know why? Because the Welch's was nowhere near as good as Kedem! Who would've thought? So everyone tried it ONCE and then went back to buying Kedem. And it wasn't worth it for Welch's to do it again because nobody wanted it.


This makes me laugh. Before I converted I loved welches. When my dad came to visit he tried Kedem and said it is much better! Go figure
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 22 2014, 12:08 pm
I understand the situation in many European countries, where the food does not have a hecsher, but kashrut authorities have checked out the place and know what goes on there.

But I don't really understand how one can simply read and ingredient list and deem whether something kosher or not.

The modern food industry is quite complex, and the ingredients list only tells part of the story. You need to know if the equipment on which it was processed was also kept kosher (the ingredients on a package for fish sticks may seem okay, but perhaps it was processed on the same equipment used to process squid and not cleaned thoroughly in between batches? That sort of info is not found on the label.

There are many more subtle issues with kashrut the in modern food industry. Many high level mashgiachs these days possess advanced degrees in biochemistry. It's really not so trivial as reading an ingredients list.
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Thu, Apr 21 2016, 11:08 pm
Reviving this old thread... Just found it and wanted to respond bec it is relevant to me as my children are getting older and I can't decide if I should buy foods on the Pesach list for the house. Outside the house I'm ok, but so unsure what to do. Also we are Ashkenaz but always let the kids have everything on the list, and I'm so unsure how to proceed now that they're getting older. We ask him our shailos and follow as best we can, but it is difficult within a community even for those of us who don't feel the need to particularly "fit in"
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amother
Lemon


 

Post Fri, Apr 22 2016, 12:40 am
Pardon my ignorance but which rabbi Abadi is this? Name and where from?
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kollel wife




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 22 2016, 12:29 pm
I'm reading this thread. All of us have this similar feeling sometimes when our husband wants to be "meikel" and we're not really comfortable doing that.

Maybe at a calm time you can have a discussion with your husband and say, it's hard for me, or I feel it'll put the kids in a difficult position if we do x,y,z. We have neighbors (adults and kids) who will not understand. They will be critical and judgemental and make our kids feel bad. Can we figure out some ideas, not because we feel R Abadi is wrong, but to make things simpler/easier.

The same way I'd really like to buy my kids less expensive weekday shoes - I don't, I buy what everyone else has. (For Shabbos I buy from payless or similar online) But you don't want to make them feel different. It's important to make them feel accepted. Not easy to make them carry a banner of being different - and not a good idea.

You have to find the right time for such a conversation.
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cnc




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 22 2016, 12:30 pm
amother wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but which rabbi Abadi is this? Name and where from?


He's from Lakewood.
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Fri, Apr 22 2016, 1:36 pm
kollel wife wrote:
I'm reading this thread. All of us have this similar feeling sometimes when our husband wants to be "meikel" and we're not really comfortable doing that.



It's different because we don't consider this psak meikel just unconventional
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Ilovemaryland




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 22 2016, 3:22 pm
hila wrote:
Just read some of his website.
He advocates following your own minhagim.

However if you dont have your own and want to follow his psakim - his sons say

Quote:
If he follows all of Rabbi Abadi's pesakim, such as; no going to movies, Broadway shows, Sports stadiums for games, bars etc. or makes Ha'etz on chocolate, orange juice, apple juice etc or Haadama on cold cereals or oat bread or oat crackers, or etc, then yes, he can eat kitniyot. The hataras nedarim of Erev Rosh Hashana would resolve the neder aspect of the past minhag.
We also assume that most that are following this website are either unlearned and are looking for an education or to understand our father's Piskei Halacha.


Website is http://www.kashrut.org/


My friend told me that the only eruv R Abadi allows is a fence or wall around the entire development.
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