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How do you justify Pesach programs AND tuition assistance???
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 12:22 am
amother wrote:
I know of one school that writes to the parents at the beginning of the year and tells them outright that anyone who goes away for Pesach will not be eligible for tuition breaks. Sure, the grandparents want everyone together, but they don't get to use community tzedaka money for that.

The grandparents are not using any communal tzedakah money and the school should get out of the grandparents' pockets. The parents I can understand. And definitely go ahead and send the grandparents appeals to school fundraisers and such. But if they are going to a hotel for Pesach and want to have their grandkids with them, the schools REALLY need to butt out. What's the alternative for the grandparents? This is just a good way of causing bad feelings all around and depriving both grandparents and grandchildren of opportunities to spend time together. Many older people are just not up to spending yomtov in a crowded house full of stressed-out people. It's physically and mentally hard for them, even if they WOULD be able to arrange it for less than the cost of a hotel. And if the extended family is large enough there's a good chance they have some kind of group deal going. As someone who has very very rare opportunities for family to get together , I believe this is valuable beyond money - if the money isn't there then it's not even a question but if the parents of the extended family have the money and want to spend it this way, KOL HAKAVOD.

the last time my whole family - my siblings and all their kids - were under one roof was at my wedding. The family was about 2/3 its current size then, and it was a wedding not all that much of a bonding experience. Odds are that a similar gathering will never happen again, ever, because now several family members have many children in different parts of the world and none of us are rich. But I well remember the joy on my father's face that he was able to see his entire family together one last time. They invest a lot into raising a family and if they can afford it then HOW DARE ANYONE deprive them of the chance to have the nachas of spending time with their offspring.

And even though I said the wedding wasn't much of a bonding experience, that was mostly for the adults who were busy with the details - the next generation of young cousins got to spend time with each other. family is irreplaceable and invaluable. Even if you can only get together rarely, you have a connection. If you never meet ever at all, not so much.

Sorry, as someone who grew up living close or relatively close to many cousins and having spent numerous holidays with grandparents, this is something meaningful to me. I also have close relatives who live much farther from their (other side) cousins and grandparents and have done the hotel thing and I am very happy for them that they are able to have that experience of a nice yomtov together with their grandparents and cousins. And if I had that opportunity I would take it in a heartbeat without worrying about how else the benefactor could be spending their money (though I WOULD worry about how other people would judge us and whether it would get my kids exposed to a standard of living that I could never possibly hope to keep up for them)
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Goldie613




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 1:05 am
amother wrote:
I can't think of any reason this would be ok.


While I do understand what you're saying, I would make an exception for anyone dealing with medical issues or similar situations where they might not be physically able to deal with cleaning the house, cooking, etc. Yes, even then it would lovely if they had family to just take them in for the week or help them prepare their own home, but not everyone has that, and I think especially then allowances would need to be made.

I think I might also include Baal Tshuvas who feel that their family would learn more and grow more if someone else was running the Seder. This doesn't have to mean going on a fancy cruise ship, but certainly a more "reasonably" priced hotel could be seen as necessary by some.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 1:06 am
I find the whole premise of this thread to be pathetic. I am always surprised at how many posts here are about picking apart the finances and spending habits of other families, usually with a whole lot of unverifiable assumptions. What a bunch of nosybodies! MYOB! Ugh.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 1:22 am
DrMom wrote:
I find the whole premise of this thread to be pathetic. I am always surprised at how many posts here are about picking apart the finances and spending habits of other families, usually with a whole lot of unverifiable assumptions. What a bunch of nosybodies! MYOB! Ugh.

Great, now this is the part where someone(s) say(s) that it IS their business because these families' tuition discounts are funded out of their hard-working pockets. We have had this conversation already.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 1:37 am
I don't get the issue. First of all, if someone is offered it for free from the grandparents they would be idiots to turn it down without a very good reason. No one is offering them cash here.

Second of all tuition boards don't expect you to use every last penny you have on tuition. You are allowed a reasonable amount for living. So you may choose to go hungry for six months to save up for the hotel. That really shouldn't impact your tuition. You are allowed to choose to scrimp in other areas to afford a luxury (no, I'm not suggesting to scrimp on tuition to cover it but suggesting that it's ok to keep your entire food budget and live off rice and potatos year round and use your grocery money for the pesach hotel or something like that). I would think it unreasonable to tell someone to live off that diet to pay more tuition but they still have that choice.

Third there are always variables you wont know about that may cause them to need it. They don't owe you an explanation (unless of course you are on the school board making the decision about their scholarship).

Fourth everyone else is right. Get your mind out of everyone elses finances.
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amother
Saddlebrown


 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 1:51 am
If the grandparents will pay for a vacation but not tuition, they are making a statement of priorities. And not a very impressive one, either.

Why is it OK to turn to the community but not to your parents in this case? Someone is footing the bill for your child's tuition. Sometimes resources are finite.

ETA: my mind isn't on anyone's finances until their hands are in my pockets.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 2:00 am
The statement they are making is "I worked hard all my life and provided my kids with a Jewish education. In fact I still work hard and nothing would make me happier than having my family share a yomtov together in a peaceful environment where my hardworking children (because I'm not on imamother so I don't know that being poor is a walk in the park) can relax and spend time with me."

And you have no way of knowing whether the paying parties also contribute to the schools, or how much. Or perhaps they contribute generously to their local schools and the communities where their children live should likewise support local institutions. Or maybe both.
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amother
Saddlebrown


 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 2:12 am
seeker wrote:
The statement they are making is "I worked hard all my life and provided my kids with a Jewish education. In fact I still work hard and nothing would make me happier than having my family share a yomtov together in a peaceful environment where my hardworking children (because I'm not on imamother so I don't know that being poor is a walk in the park) can relax and spend time with me."

And you have no way of knowing whether the paying parties also contribute to the schools, or how much. Or perhaps they contribute generously to their local schools and the communities where their children live should likewise support local institutions. Or maybe both.


If the grandparents are giving money to support local institutions, then why not pay tuition for the grandchildren? I understand wanting a nice time with family. I don't understand taking money from the community at the same time. If I said that I work hard and nothing would make me happier than the Kohinoor diamond, I still can't ask for a tuition subsidy to pay for it.

The fact that you work hard doesn't entitle you to dip into communal funds. If the family is close enough for grandparents to pay for a vacation, they are close enough to pay for tuition.

Take the kids for a short trip during the summer and relax together then. Pesach in a hotel is a luxury, and if you can afford it, enjoy.
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amother
Cerulean


 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 2:17 am
Seeker, I cannot like your posts on this subject enough! Absolutely awesome, especially the long earlier one about the joy on your father's face Smile
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 2:40 am
amother wrote:
Seeker, I cannot like your posts on this subject enough! Absolutely awesome, especially the long earlier one about the joy on your father's face Smile

He was nearing the wrong end of cancer at that point so it meant a lot. But it definitely wasn't cheap. About 10 people had to be flown in from Israel, and there were some hotel accommodations involved as well. I am quite sure that there were at least 10 or so children present who were receiving some level or another of tuition assistance, which is a large and long-term expense that is very much appreciated. I still don't think they owe their community an apology for taking this trip and I highly doubt that most of their fellow community members would bear a grudge over this.


Last edited by seeker on Wed, May 04 2016, 2:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Cerulean


 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 2:51 am
I totally agree!
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amother
Saddlebrown


 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 3:23 am
I think a terminal illness is an unusual situation and I can't imagine that anyone would begrudge a family this last chag together.
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 3:40 am
Just repeating, as you can see from Seeker, you really don't know the whole situation so Don't Judge.
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Culturedpearls




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 4:26 am
Well I'm a parent & grandparent. I have & still am paying full tuition for our school aged kids. Ain't no way I'm going to pay tuition for the next generation, especially after seeing how many abuse the system. I do however use any extra money to fly my kids home so we can all enjoy the nachas.
No I do not feel it's my obligation at all to pay my grandchildrens tuition. If I could afford it I would take the entire extended family to kibbutz Lavi for Shabbos (including airfare) and I would do so guilt free thank you very much.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 7:20 am
You guys, op is a troll. Leave it alone.

Lets face it - imamother has been boring lately. Nothing exciting has been going on, no blood has been boiling. The best thing in days is a post from a woman who is upset about her wedding flowers 4 years later. So along comes trolly who wants to spice things up - thats what a troll does.

So she took 2 topics that get our blood boiling. Took a spin from the imamother topic wheel and came up with tuition assistance and pesach programs - the 2 things that most seperate the "haves" from the "have nots". Bam! A heated topic. Toss a few elderly grandparents in the mix and you get 4 pages of imamother fun.
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groovy1224




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 7:43 am
amother wrote:
If the grandparents are giving money to support local institutions, then why not pay tuition for the grandchildren? I understand wanting a nice time with family. I don't understand taking money from the community at the same time. If I said that I work hard and nothing would make me happier than the Kohinoor diamond, I still can't ask for a tuition subsidy to pay for it.

The fact that you work hard doesn't entitle you to dip into communal funds. If the family is close enough for grandparents to pay for a vacation, they are close enough to pay for tuition.

Take the kids for a short trip during the summer and relax together then. Pesach in a hotel is a luxury, and if you can afford it, enjoy.


Are you serious right now? Is this like a belated adar joke? Are you seriously suggesting that EVERY grandparent, parent, generous uncle, fairy godmother, etc. needs to make inquiries as to the tuition status of the recipient before giving a gift? Oh sorry, was going to by you a car but I see you got a tuition discount. Better luck next time. (I'm sure you'll say it only applies to the extravagant gifts. Buy who's the judge of that? You? No thank you). So only very wealthy people can accept help. Gotcha. Makes so much sense.

What you're implying is so ridiculous I can't even fathom you really believe it. Basically anyone with wealthy relatives is not entitled to tuition assistance, regardless of how hard they're trying to make it on their own in the world, unless they reject every gift they are offered. So what if you bust your behind to make as much as you can, but still can't pay your FULL tuition bill? No vacations for you! Parents offered to buy your kids shoes for the summer? Think again! Your grandma wants to take you to a mani pedi and then lunch? Co-workers chipped in and bought you that bassinet you wanted? Your sister won a Chinese raffle for a new sheitl and gave it to you? WELL SHAME ON YOU.

Sorry to be rude, but OP you need to get a grip. Yes, breaking news, people abuse the 'system' sometimes and enjoy daily luxuries while draining community resources. According to imamother statistics like 96% of people who get a tuition break do this. In the real world, most of us are trying to make an honest living, pay as much as we can towards our children's schools, but graciously accept any break at all they can give us. After that, I live my life. If I find five bucks on the street, I don't run to the tuition office. I go get ice cream with my kids. I don't have a sign on my forehead that says 'in lieu of presents please make all checks payable to school x.' I fail to recall the line on the tuition contract that demanded that.
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amother
Babypink


 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 8:10 am
amother wrote:
If the grandparents will pay for a vacation but not tuition, they are making a statement of priorities. And not a very impressive one, either.

Why is it OK to turn to the community but not to your parents in this case? Someone is footing the bill for your child's tuition. Sometimes resources are finite.

ETA: my mind isn't on anyone's finances until their hands are in my pockets.


EXACTLY.
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amother
Amber


 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 8:41 am
My parents have a choice. They can either be home alone for yom tov or fly a family to them (going to kids isnt an option). If I tell my parents to pay my tuition instead, how does that help them not have a lonely yom tov?
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amother
Saddlebrown


 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 8:56 am
amother wrote:
My parents have a choice. They can either be home alone for yom tov or fly a family to them (going to kids isnt an option). If I tell my parents to pay my tuition instead, how does that help them not have a lonely yom tov?


Sigh. Going to family is not going to a hotel. What's the question here?
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amother
Babypink


 

Post Wed, May 04 2016, 9:13 am
groovy1224 wrote:
Are you serious right now? Is this like a belated adar joke? Are you seriously suggesting that EVERY grandparent, parent, generous uncle, fairy godmother, etc. needs to make inquiries as to the tuition status of the recipient before giving a gift? Oh sorry, was going to by you a car but I see you got a tuition discount. Better luck next time. (I'm sure you'll say it only applies to the extravagant gifts. Buy who's the judge of that? You? No thank you). So only very wealthy people can accept help. Gotcha. Makes so much sense.

What you're implying is so ridiculous I can't even fathom you really believe it. Basically anyone with wealthy relatives is not entitled to tuition assistance, regardless of how hard they're trying to make it on their own in the world, unless they reject every gift they are offered. So what if you bust your behind to make as much as you can, but still can't pay your FULL tuition bill? No vacations for you! Parents offered to buy your kids shoes for the summer? Think again! Your grandma wants to take you to a mani pedi and then lunch? Co-workers chipped in and bought you that bassinet you wanted? Your sister won a Chinese raffle for a new sheitl and gave it to you? WELL SHAME ON YOU.

Sorry to be rude, but OP you need to get a grip. Yes, breaking news, people abuse the 'system' sometimes and enjoy daily luxuries while draining community resources. According to imamother statistics like 96% of people who get a tuition break do this. In the real world, most of us are trying to make an honest living, pay as much as we can towards our children's schools, but graciously accept any break at all they can give us. After that, I live my life. If I find five bucks on the street, I don't run to the tuition office. I go get ice cream with my kids. I don't have a sign on my forehead that says 'in lieu of presents please make all checks payable to school x.' I fail to recall the line on the tuition contract that demanded that.


Whoa boy. You're not sounding very "groovy" right now, are you? I'm making a point. priorities are screwed up. I'm mostly making a statement about families who get TA and then pay for themselves to go on a pesach program, but everyone is getting up in arms about the grandparents issue. Yes, the priorities of the grandparents are messed up as well if they are funding extravagant vacations and not helping more toward tuition payments. If they are doing it all, and supporting their adult kids for every little thing, that's another post in and of itself. Obviously there are exceptions here where no one would begrudge certain individuals any nicety given them. And, obviously, I'm not talking about a terminally ill family member's last beautiful Pesach with all of their extended family.
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