Is my nephew a sociopath?

gp2.0

Thu, May 05 2016, 8:58 am

Many adults also think it's hilarious to watch people getting hurt, judging by the YouTube videos about "fails" and people falling down that get millions of views. There's even a TV show spinoff showcasing all these videos called "Americas funniest videos."

I don't think a 5 year old can be a sociopath. I do think that if his parents are incapable of disciplining him and teaching him right from wrong, he may develop sociopathic tendencies.

Generally speaking, sociopaths are formed by severe neglect or abuse during childhood.

gp2.0

Thu, May 05 2016, 3:28 pm

I'm reminded of a terrifying documentary I saw on YouTube, Child of Rage, about a child who had been s*xually abused. Her parents got help for her because she started talking, calmly and without emotion, about killing them. She described how she would kill them with a knife from the kitchen while they were asleep. She was eventually rehabilitated and reunited with her family, after intense therapy she began developing feelings of remorse and affection, which had been absent up to that point.

FranticFrummie

Thu, May 05 2016, 4:25 pm

kima wrote:

You should probably read this New York Times article from a few years ago: Can You Call a 9-Year-Old a Psychopath?

This is an absolutely brilliant article. I recommend everyone who's commenting on this thread to read it, and then go back and reread the OP's original comment.

What jumped out at me the most was about manipulation. If the boy had hit the baby directly, that would be within the norm. Instead, he manipulated the baby's brother to hit her, and then laughed about it. That is calculated, cold, and detached behavior. It's not impulsivity, it's a high level of intelligence and advance planning.

Chayalle

Thu, May 05 2016, 4:36 pm

GAP wrote:

I don't think you can diagnose a five year old as a sociopath. Children are usually diagnosed with a "conduct disorder" which can lead to a diagnosis of an anti social personality disorder as an adult. People who are diagnosed this way usually actually hurt animals and children without remorse. Sounds like this child isn't the one doing the hurting, he's just enjoys watching it happen. Many young children enjoy watching someone fall and will laugh when someone falls down. It sounds like he and his parents do have some issues though (maybe Asperger's, autism).

I found this last bit so offensive. I don't get all riled up easily but your post has me up in arms.

Do you know anything about Aspergers and autism? As someone with a sibling with Aspergers, or autism spectrum as currently diagnosed, I want to state that they totally would be distressed to see someone in pain. He would be traumatized, maybe more than the next person. My brother would never hurt a fly. He also has behaviors that cause him to be wrapped up in himself, but NEVER at the expense of someone else.

Before you tar and feather a whole group of precious souls, have some awareness please. These are kind, innocent personalities, just they don't necessarily know how to show caring without being taught.

tichellady

Thu, May 05 2016, 4:55 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Smart kids are manipulative, that doesn't make them sociopaths. And plenty of kids enjoy seeing their siblings suffer. Based on what the op wrote I don't think the child can be diagnosed as a sociopath. He sounds like a child that could use some love and positive attention. I thought the best part of the article was when he explained that it's so hard to diagnose kids as sociopaths because most kids exhibit behaviors that we would consider psychotic in adults

GAP

Thu, May 05 2016, 7:04 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. The op said that the child's parents have very black and white views, are socially off and that the child has sensory issues. That sounds autistic like to me. I am saying based on experience that I knew an autistic child( probably lower functioning) that will throw an object because he thinks it's funny to watch something fly through the air, not because he means to harm anyone. He doesn't realize he is harming someone if the object hits them, but will still laugh when the object flies. We don't know exactly what the child in ops scenario is enjoying about watching people get hurt. It might not be malicious. There is a huge range of types of people and levels of functioning and behaviors on the spectrum and I am by no means relating what I say to tar an entire group of people that include various types and personalities. You are right when you say that people with autism can be and are the sweetest, purest, and most innocent people and I did not mean to imply otherwise. Op or her family can get the child professionally evaluated and find out.

BasMelech120

Thu, May 05 2016, 9:05 pm

I don't think any of us should be labeling anyone as a sociopath without a valid psychological assessment by a professional. This is a generation of greater mental health awareness, but that doesn't give people the power to simply 'throw a diagnosis out there' without having had the individual in question properly evaluated.

The point that I am taking out of it is the importance of ensuring that men/women/couples who will not be able to properly take care of a child are using birth control for as long as they need it. It is not fair to the mother OR the father OR the child in this scenario, since without the proper care and interventions, the cycle of dysfunction (or mental health problems, if present) may just span even further.

Chayalle

Fri, May 06 2016, 10:10 am

GAP wrote:

Thank you, I appreciate your clarification. Apology accepted.

It hurts me when people misunderstand Aspergers/PDD/Autism. My brother would be distressed to hear a baby cry - he can't handle it, because he doesn't know what to do to help. It's totally different than someone who hurts on purpose, and your post here is much more clear about that.

FranticFrummie

Fri, May 06 2016, 10:22 am

tichellady wrote:

I don't think you read my post clearly. The child that seems problematic, was NOT the one who hit the baby.

He used another child, the baby's brother, as a PROXY to create mayhem. He got someone else to do the dirty work, and someone else to take the blame. THAT is what I find sneaky and manipulative.

My sister and I used to hit and bite eat other all the time. That's what siblings do. If another kid kept egging me on to go over and bite my sister, that would be another story entirely.

Do you see the difference now?

I am not trying to label anyone. Nobody can give a diagnosis this early, not even most professionals in the field. What we can do, is suggest that there are warning signs, and discuss early intervention. If there are TENDENCIES that seem to fit a profile for a potential future diagnosis, they need to be addressed as soon as possible.

Chayalle

Fri, May 06 2016, 10:29 am

I see the difference FF.

I remember my mother's good friend had twin sons who would literally beat each other up all the time. One day they both came home with a black eye and she was like, oh no! They are doing it at school too!

Then they explained. Some other child at school hit one of the twins, and boy did his brother give it to him for starting up with his twin!

Now I'm not advocating kids getting into fights and using their hands at all...but what FF is saying is that it's normal for kids to fight one-on-one, but when it's second hand the normal thing is to come to the other person's defense - not to get the other person to hurt.

I'm also opposed to diagnosing a young child as a sociopath - but agree that if a child is displaying negative behavior that is problematic, forget about worrying about diagnosis and just get the child the help he/she needs!

GAP

Fri, May 06 2016, 10:52 am

Chayalle wrote:

I'm happy you called me out on that and glad I was able to clarify because I would be really sad to know that something I wrote was insulting to anyone with autism or family members of somebody with autism. I will definitely be more careful in the future. Your brother sounds amazing and is lucky to have you as a sister.

causemommysaid

Fri, May 06 2016, 1:07 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

I watched it also.

It seems that the therapy was based on the concept of giving the girl increased responsibility with animals. I think she was sent to a farm and was charged with feeding and caring for the animals. by putting her in a "nurturing" role they were able to develop her empathy and conscience.

She never developed attachment to a caregiver in early life because she had been adopted at age 3-4 from a terrible home. Her younger brother was also adopted with her but he was adopted during the window where he could still form attachment to a caregiver.

Similar stories happened during WW1 and WW2. Nice American and English families adopted toddlers from eastern Europe and could not understand why their adorable kids were so cold and detached. Since they were neglected in orphanages they never developed any attachment to anyone during the critical window.

amother

Indigo

Fri, May 06 2016, 2:53 pm

amother wrote:

Thanks for the responses, keep em coming! So what confuses me is the fact that his complete lack of empathy also goes along with autistic traits. Like I wrote he becomes obsessed with one thing, really has no interest in socializing or playing with other children (UNLESS they are acting wild), food issues, anxiety and depression. I googled conduct disorder and it seemed like these issues are less a chemical imbalance and more seen with children who had early neglect. This is one area in which he is not lacking. Despite his parents being a bit "off" he is shown a lot of affection from his mother and grandparents. His father does play with him but has serious social struggles. I showed my sister this thread as she agrees his behavior is "psychotic." My sister has a very overly giving, codependent, too sweet in a socially off way personality but she is very affectionate with her kids. She did expand on the fact that in shul this week he saw a father shushing a baby to sleep and he purposely tried to scare the baby and wake him up. She said his behavior escalates like this every few months. I jokingly asked her if he purposely steps on bugs and she said he does. Disaster!!

Very typical aspergers behavior. Very different from sociopathic tendencies. Add the fact that his parents have autistic traits....