Rabbi Shais Taub Ami column on internet addiction

amother

Vermilion

Tue, May 24 2016, 3:34 pm

amother wrote:

I would be very surprised if any of the "likes" came from anyone with any SA experience. And her "issue" of non - confrontation is a load of BS. How about compliment her for trying to live with an addict for years being lied to and gaslit and still being able to function and be sane? How about stop blaming the victims? I am really hating this man right now so I will stop. What bothers me the most is him calling himself an addictions specialist. He knows nothing and should stay out of it.

This is interesting. I actually think he is treating this too much like the "addiction is a family disease" model. SA is unique in that the trauma overshadows whatever codependency may or may not exist (and I've met enough of us in the parsha to see that there are plenty in our ranks.)

The first step is not for her to see where she is lacking, spiritually or otherwise. This is terrible advice. The first step is for her to build herself up, stand up for herself, and get on her feet.

amother

Tan

Tue, May 24 2016, 3:35 pm

amother wrote:

I think he first emails the writer of the letter a separate response, which probably includes a lot of information and details that he is not allowed to publish for the general public (By the publisher or Halachic authorities). He has a difficult role to play, not to cross the line that can be interpreted as controversial by his readership.
I am personally amazed at his responses, including this one.

What about an answer like "consult with a therapist specializing in addictions and keep yourself safe" could be interpreted as controversial by his readership?!!?

amother

Vermilion

Tue, May 24 2016, 3:56 pm

amother wrote:

Yes, this. Instead of four pages of mice with holes. Awful.

I actually liked the mashal. It was a polite slap in the face to those rabanim who believe banning the internet will end all mental illness or something. And who but we know that we cannot make the addict plug his hole nor plug it for him. He has to do so himself. That part was fine.

The big BUT for me is when he turned the mashal against her instead of building her up.

It is irrelevant in this case that she asked for it. Living with addiction conditions us to seek fault in ourselves, as the addict is such an expert in blaming us for his problem.

He should have known better. My only dlkz is that SA is indeed unique amongst addictions and he may have a better grasp of other addictions than this one.

amother

Taupe

Tue, May 24 2016, 4:51 pm

amother wrote:

Okay, yes, he gave a very nice long mashal in the beginning but didn't take it anywhere (ie how do they close the hole?). He didn't even suggest going to a therapist who specializes in addiction (which basically should have been the first solution this woman needed). He then proceeded to make some (too much) of the issue about her and her difficulty with confrontation and dealing with issues. Really?!!? So it's her fault/responsibility/issue now?

There was nothing practical and helpful in the response at all.

amother

Navy

Tue, May 24 2016, 5:04 pm

cnc wrote:

Take into account that although the Ami doesn't have very strict boundaries or guidelines, it is a family magazine and he needs to use subtlety when responding. He's sort of limited.

If he feels so limited, then it is better not to address the topic at all than do this poor and twisted treatment of a very serious topic.
Signed, SA wife

amother

Ivory

Tue, May 24 2016, 8:02 pm

Um did you all not see her postscript abt getting help? She obviously is aware of how important tht is and is not writing to the Ami for such a neat little answer- and quite an obvious one too. Duh they both need therapy.

And he actually made the husband's problem rooted in his relationship with Hashem. If anyone here is at all familiar with the twelve steps, this is actually a big part of them...

amother

Navy

Tue, May 24 2016, 8:06 pm

[quote="amother"]Um did you all not see her postscript abt getting help? She obviously is aware of how important tht is and is not writing to the Ami for such a neat little answer- and quite an obvious one too. Duh they both need therapy.

And he actually made the husband's problem rooted in his relationship with Hashem. If anyone here is at all familiar with the twelve steps, this is actually a big part of th

amother

Vermilion

Tue, May 24 2016, 8:17 pm

amother wrote:

I disagree that needing therapy is a "duh". These columns are read by a wide audience, some of whom may find themselves in the very same position as the writer with a lot more confusion. Being married to an addict is in itself a confusing experience and one of the worst effects of living like this for years is (in the words of the conference approved literature) "Our self-esteem dropped to lower and lower levels, and we doubted our attractiveness, our emotions, our sanity, and our human worth."

He could have found space between the many variations of the same theme to squeeze in the line "it is vitally important to seek out a therapist experienced in these matters who respects the 12 step approach to recovery for the addict, and both the trauma and 12 step models for spouses."

sourstix

Tue, May 24 2016, 8:59 pm

[quote="amother"]Ok, this article is awful. I can't imagine how this gives clarity to anyone. He is vague, talks in metaphors, and does not have one piece of evidenced based direct advice. So invalidating to this poor woman. I imagine that she came away with the feeling that her problem can be solved by turning to hashem, which is ridiculous. She is caught in the web of addiction, which is a disease, not a spiritual problem. Of course there are spiritual effects, but it is a real disease. She needs evidenced based appropriate treatment as hishtadlus, and at the same time to turn to hashem, just like with any other mental health issue. He also seems to have no idea about the trauma model for partners, so he is doing a great job of retraumatizing the wife. He also spends a good portion of time discussing himself and his lecturing and popularity. I have seen this in other articles of his, and I wonder about that? He Also makes no mention to her responsibility and right to establish boundaries and protect herself. That should be her number one priority,a nd yes, she has a right to insist on him working a program. Forget about all this mice and holes stupidity.
As the wife of an SA, it is articles and people like this that make us feel so invalidated and alone.[/quote]

thank you for saying the words I had a hard time expressing. he really has no idea what addiction is. he is using tanya and chabad torah to explain addiction. very nice but not applicable. thanks for trying rabbi taub, but I think you got it wrong.

no I dont have a dh with addictions as these but he just doesnt make sense to me.

sourstix

Tue, May 24 2016, 9:13 pm

does he have a license? can someone who has ami check for me please? I am so curious.

look I have read his answers quite a few times. I used to read it. I got sick and tired of it. I acutally can imagine what he answers many time. my father is very immersed in toras chabad. not a chabad, but is very learned in their sforim. whenever he answers I can see that he uses that approach, which is fine. no problem. but when it comes to addictions and mental health noway is that an approach, I think its got nothing to do with each other.

and I really think he is crossing the line taking the liberty to answer such quetions using the ideas he is using.

again there is nothing wrong with chabad seforim. actually there are many from many different circles that identify with it. the bal hatanya was a genius and great talmid chochom. but I really think hes got to stop speaking about topics he knows nothing. did he get training? I dont know, from my gut feeling its "no"

so I stopped reading his stuff I came away more confused after his answers.

I think if someone has an issue like this . got to professionals that have a license go to places that have track record for success.

abraham twersky is a professional in the ffeild of addctions! he has a center for that.
I really think it would be wise for someone to tell him he should get himself a license before he goes on.

busymom

Tue, May 24 2016, 9:48 pm

Rabbi Taub is very open about the fact that his answers are Torah based and that whoever is writing should know that all he does is offer a Torah perspective. He repeats this regularly in his column. Obviously, someone can choose to disregard his responses bc they prefer hearing input from a professional, but I don't think anyone can accuse him of misrepresenting himself.
Personally, I find many of his responses insightful and enlightening. In this particular piece, he only addressed the woman's issues bc she asked him too, and if I remember correctly, he specifically wrote that her husband's problems are NOT her fault in any way and that's not what he is implying by using the original mouse mashal to address her own personal concerns.

amother

Navy

Tue, May 24 2016, 10:06 pm

busymom wrote:

First, he presents himself as a specialist in additictions based on having written a book on the topic and as a lecturer on the topic. Thus, he has a responsibility to present his audience with well informed, up to date, and helpful information. If he was just representing himself as an average rabbi, then we can hold him to a lower standard. However, the audience and readership are led to believe that he is an expert on addictions. Therefore, the bar is held higher.

I am wondering if you have personal experience with SA, and if so, did you find his answers insightful and enlightening? I imagine not, because it seems like those of us who do found that the article completely missed the mark.

busymom

Tue, May 24 2016, 10:14 pm

amother wrote:

First, he presents himself as a specialist in additictions based on having written a book on the topic and as a lecturer on the topic. Thus, he has a responsibility to present his audience with well informed, up to date, and helpful information. If he was just representing himself as an average rabbi, then we can hold him to a lower standard. However, the audience and readership are led to believe that he is an expert on addictions. Therefore, the bar is held higher.
I am wondering if you have personal experience with SA, and if so, did you find his answers insightful and enlightening? I imagine not, because it seems like those of us who do found that the article completely missed the mark.

I'm sorry for your pain.
I believe he writes that he approaches addiction from a Torah perspective.
I didn't say that I found THIS piece insightful and enlightening, only that, in general, I find "many of his responses" insightful and enlightening. You are right that B"H I don't have personal experience with this issue. As a reader, I thought that this piece started off great but he didn't give enough concrete guidance about how to fill the hole.

amother

Vermilion

Tue, May 24 2016, 10:50 pm

busymom wrote:

Towards the end he wrote she should reach out to others in this position for support. Meaning, us anoners.

He also said he can't give public details but that those who need it can get the information.

If he already did hint about support groups for "filling the spiritual hole", why couldn't he mention, just for clarity sake, "and a therapist experienced in these issues should also be able to direct you towards others in this situation"? Or SOMETHING along these lines.

Most of us flailed in the dark for a LONG time before finding help and support. Seeing him be vague when he should have better answers is so frustrating.

busymom

Tue, May 24 2016, 11:05 pm

amother wrote:

I completely agree with these points. A little more clarity here would've been very helpful to many readers. I'm glad that you are already in a place where you are getting the support you need from ppl who understand the struggles you face.