Rabbi Shais Taub Ami column on internet addiction

amother

Saddlebrown

Wed, May 25 2016, 6:56 pm

Wow. It's so humbling to see others with such different perspectives than me. I thought my opinions were just common sense, but now I see that it is just my opinion.

I'm the wife of an SA in recovery, which I am mentioning to qualify myself to the previous posters who seem to think it matters. I am bothered by the attitude of some wives of SAS on here who keep knocking any opinion other than their own by saying the other person can't understand. This is an intelligent discussions. All opinions are welcome, including yours. It's time to get off the pity train and realize that there are many others with valid views, regardless of their life circumstances. And yes, I understand the pain of living wwith an abusive, manipulating, lying cheater.

That said, I loved the article. There is so much to say to a woman in the discovery stages of addiction that it would require a whole book, which there are many of on the market, including one written by Rabbi Shais Taub. I think he took the space of the article to impress the most important concepts onto her. First of all, that addiction is a symptom, not the cause. The cause of addiction is a deep spiritual void that the addict keeps filling with unhealthy behaviors, until he/she learns to fill it with God. Hence the phenomenon of switching addictions. That was the point of the mouse/hole analogy and is the most basic concept to understand at this point. He then brought the focus back to her, by focusing on her void, which is obviously fear. The previous posters seem to turn to anger, but I too am consumed with fear. The only way to describe it is a huge hole in my heart that Swallows up any love I put in. The only way to fill that hole is to fill it with God.

He definitely follows a 12 Step approach towards recovery from addictions, so if you don't feel the steps, you won't feel his approach. FWIW, if you are working the steps, I found his book extremely helpful and clarifying in understanding the steps and in working steps 2 and3.

And to previous posters - I hope one day you can move past your anger and hurt and realize the treasure trove of wisdom in this article.

amother

Vermilion

Wed, May 25 2016, 7:48 pm

amother wrote:

Thank you for an eloquent post.

I just want to point out that you may be so far along the steps that it makes me wonder whether you've forgotten what it feels like to be a newcomer. Or maybe you didn't come in as traumatized as some of us.

The pain from trying to find guidance FOR YEARS and hitting a brick wall is still so fresh in my memory. I didn't disagree with most of what he said. Even now when I finally have come to understand what sanon literature means when they talk about the sanon problem, I still remember the pain of being told I have a "problem" when I was at the height of trauma mode. There has to be a better way to induct newcomers because it feels like a double betrayal when we are told to focus on our character defects while in the depths of despair. Especially because the three C's tell us that this problem of his has nothing to do with me! It's all so confusing and painful.

And experts are beginning to agree. See Minwalla and SAIT concepts.

http://theinstituteforsexualhe.....tion/

With time I came to see the value of working the steps - for my own sake. Because I want to heal my relationship with God. Because I want to open myself up to a spiritual awakening.

But I am still disappointed that in his article to a wide audience he missed the opportunity to help the women who are reading it and have walked away just as clueless about where to get help or what kind of help to look for as they were before. His approach is great for addiction in general but slightly too nuanced in this case. And too many people will miss the point entirely due to the missing information, as is obvious in this discussion.

amother

Saddlebrown

Wed, May 25 2016, 8:27 pm

Vermillion, I hear your approach, and I can see that it has validity, but I personally feel that no one walks into S-anon and wants to be told that they need to focus on their own issues. They want to be validated and pitied and told how awful their husband is. I get it, I was there, and lol for the part that maybe I was not that traumatized. But there are so many people who will give the validation and help along with the self pity. And while I appreciate the encouragement I got, I am eternally grateful to the couple of friends who hard-assed me and told me that I need to get my own **** together. Oh yeah, I cursed them out for a while, but now I can look back and say that they saved my life.

The 12 steps are not a feel-good program, it's a program of self-growth, self-responsibility, and self-examination. S-anon is not a support group. It is a 12 step program. By definition, it is a group that offers support in working the steps and applying the principles of the program to our lives. Sometimes the best support is the one that feels harsh. It takes a really good friend to tell you the truth in your face, to call you out in an honest, open way. Like the program says, take what you like and leave the rest.and dont call me, I won't coddle you.

amother

Navy

Wed, May 25 2016, 8:45 pm

amother wrote:

amother

Saddlebrown

Wed, May 25 2016, 9:05 pm

amother wrote:

I hear you. If I'd be treated like you describe I'd probably never be where I am today.

I hear what you're saying that sanon is not a support group, but I'm glad my home group is safe and supportive. And no one kicks me anywhere. They let me go at my own pace - in God's time is the phrase I believe. Wink

I'm not sure what kind of kicking around you imagine, but my sponsor will never give me the poor you attitude. She will always hold me accountable for my part in any situation even when the other person was also (mostly) wrong. I hate it and I tell her, but I love her for it. I would've gotten no where if not for that.

I totally hear you, and I need to believe that God puts the people in my life to tell me the things I need to hear and to hear the things they need to. I need to be of service to others and carry the message of my recovery. I need to be careful not to hurt others, but I will never encourage self-pity and blaming because I remember how damaging it was to me.

Thank God for different folks and different strokes

amother

Saddlebrown

Wed, May 25 2016, 9:21 pm

amother wrote:

Ok, it's nice that this worked out well for you. But you do realize there is another approach? And the trauma model approach is the kinder, gentler, and more up to date approach? More psychologically sound?

I do have to thank you for your honesty in describing what one can expect at s-anon. You have reinforced for me that I will never go near an s-anon group, ever. Why would I put myself through that brutality? I will seek my healing through gentler,kinder methods. Thank you.

I do realize that there are a host of different approaches, and I am open to any form of recovery that works. Please read the beginning of the post you quoted, where I directly validate Vermillion's approach. My question to you is, are you open to other approaches, or are you stuck in one mindset that doesn't allow you see validity in anything out of your comfort zone?

I have to say that your second paragraph is extremely triggering for me. My father always handed me back-handed compliments, and that is how you came across to me. I started reading thinking you were complimenting me for my honesty, and then I felt back-stabbed by what felt like an attempt at a stab at me. I know this is my work, my own healing that I need to do and I thank you for bringing that up for me. At the same time, I'm totally OK with you telling me that you don't feel like S-anon is for you, that you feel that trauma based therapy works better for you, and I believe you and respect you for seeking recovery for yourself. I am not OK with you talking (typing) to me in a manner that is underhanded, sarcastic and mean.

If anyone was unkind in this thread, it was you.

I also had to chuckle at the never, ever part of your post. You know the saying; Never say never. May you find the healing you need, whether it be in the rooms or out.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, May 25 2016, 9:28 pm

amother wrote:

I have nothing to add to this discussion, but I just want to say that you sound like such an incredibly wise, strong, courageous, honest person. I applaud you for the work you've put in to become the amazing person you clearly are today. Applause

amother

Vermilion

Wed, May 25 2016, 9:28 pm

amother wrote:

Maybe that's why I didn't find a sponsor before recently, when I finally got the "willingness".

I don't like this "my part in it" business for newcomers. It's a phrase that's way too confusing. I guess that's what happens when new and complex ideas get reduced to slogans.

My therapist's way of explaining how to set boundaries and keep myself safe made much more sense to me than "keeping my side of the street clean" etc. Again, you admit that in the beginning you wallowed and then you eventually started the work in earnest. I think some people just need more time to grieve than others, even if it means being stuck in victim mode for a looong time, and moving on should be a personal choice, or inspired by the growth witnessed in others. You can't make someone move on. The fact that it worked in your case means you were ready for the message.

amother

Saddlebrown

Wed, May 25 2016, 9:42 pm

amother wrote:

I'm still waiting for a reply to an email I sent.

Now why would a woman reading this turn to him for guidance when he basically said she has a hole she must deal with? As true as that may be, in that vulnerable painful position, validation has to come first.

I want to respond to the second part of your question.

Why someone would turn to him for guidance after he said she has a hole in her heart -

You are taking the hole she must deal with thing as an insult, and I'm not sure why. There are people out there who actually feel a hole in their hearts, a burning emptiness deep inside that haunts them and follows them around all day, and hearing him describe it is so validating and hope-inspiring. Hearing that there is a solution to fill that hole is the most amazing thing to hear. I know that I felt that way when I first joined S-anon, and I'm sure there are others out there that feel that way too, especially the person who wrote the letter, judging by the things she wrote.

amother

Vermilion

Wed, May 25 2016, 10:10 pm

amother wrote:

Yes, exactly. I came in to sanon raw and bleeding after years of blame and confusion. I was the cause of all his misery and I was at fault for his acting out. I was not attractive I was a b**** I was an awful human being that didn't deserve love from anyone and apparently not from God either.

I didn't have a hole in my heart because my heart was too broken. The slightest mention of my faults (of which there certainly are plenty) hurt in all the places where I was already so wounded.

I needed a lot of time to detach from him, to learn about the disease, to take care of myself, and regain my belief in myself before I could turn my attention to working on my character defects and on my "side of the street".

I remember a therapist making a simple observational comment which in retrospect is simply non-judgemental psycho-jargon for a specific dynamic and I felt so blamed.

I watch it happening to newcomers and I wish there was some transitional safe haven for them. But those of us who keep coming back, despite lashing out at the cult of robots in a gilded cage and diamond shackles, we eventually get there.

In God's time.

amother

Navy

Wed, May 25 2016, 10:15 pm

amother wrote:

amother

Vermilion

Wed, May 25 2016, 11:06 pm

amother wrote:

This sounds like a great plan. The way s-anon is described, it almost sounds like a hazing that is done to newcomers. Kind of like what goes on with sororities. Like you have to suffer for the group, and people are proud of how they survived the groups hazing. Something feels very off about it....

No, that just sounds weird.

I never felt like I had to suffer for the group. It is not a hazing. It's a language the oldtimers use that comes from a place of acceptance, but newcomers are not ready for it.

So newcomers bond with the other newcomers, cry and laugh and kvetch together, and eventually we grow together. I am constantly amazed by the growth I witness every day. And then I watch the newcomers and I am grateful to see how much I myself have grown.

Mostly I am grateful that I'm finally ready to begin the work myself.