Sick person & eating treif

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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

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greenfire

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 11:44 pm

this bothered me from another thread:

Seas wrote:

...

After discussing the halachic side of it (for which the CS did find reasons to permit it), the CS writes that since Chazal teach us that eating non-kosher food causes the mind to become blocked from understanding torah, "it is preferable the child should be mentally deficient all his life rather than be impure before Hashem."

A sick person is actually allowed to eat treif because of פיקוח נפש. I would put a "mentally deficient" person in that category.

amother

Mauve

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 11:52 pm

This story disturbed me greatly too.

I hope it isn't true.

MrsDash

Thu, Jun 02 2016, 12:02 am

Whoa which thread?

amother

Mauve

Thu, Jun 02 2016, 12:07 am

The one which is now locked, of course. Wink

http://www.imamother.com/forum.....96909

About therapists who are sleeveless.

MrsDash

Thu, Jun 02 2016, 12:36 am

Just read it. That's freakin hilarious! Rolling Laughter

amother

Mauve

Thu, Jun 02 2016, 12:38 am

Yeah, though when you know people with that attitude in real life, it ain't that funny.

I'm just curious - why was that thread locked? It didn't violate any rules, did it?

Ema of 5

Thu, Jun 02 2016, 2:09 am

amother wrote:

This story disturbed me greatly too.

I hope it isn't true.

That whole thread disturbed me. As well as that entire post.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Jun 02 2016, 5:16 am

It really freaked me out, too. It reminds me of religions that refuse any kind of medical treatment at all, even if the child is guaranteed to die otherwise.

To not give a child (or anyone else) the treatment they medically or mentally need, treif or not - is pure neglect. No two ways about it.

Seas

Thu, Jun 02 2016, 6:38 am

greenfire wrote:

this bothered me from another thread:

A sick person is actually allowed to eat treif because of פיקוח נפש. I would put a "mentally deficient" person in that category.

The wording is highly misleading as there is no blanket hetter of eating treif just because someone is sick. The halacha is that almost all aveiros are muttar in order to save a Jewish life, so if a sick person would need to eat treif for whatever reason it would be permitted.

As to the Chasam Sofer I quoted in the above-linked thread, you can find more about it here (last 3 paragraphs).

The actual tshuva is Orach Chaim 83, which can be found here, with the aformentioned quote two pages later at the very end of the tshuva.

The Chasam Sofer was a revered posek who lived in the 18th-19th century, and whose pesokim were accepted by all of Ashkenzic Jewry (to the sefardim here, for lack of a better example, he was the 'Rav Ovadia' of his time for Ashkenazim).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_Sofer

Simple1

Thu, Jun 02 2016, 7:02 am

I will assume that there's more to the story. Maybe it wasn't such a cut and dried case, and the institution might not even have been sure to help. We're talking feeding traif on a regular basis, not as a short term treatment plan.

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Jun 02 2016, 7:42 am

One of my children was in a facility for 6 months. He was told to stick to a vegetarian menu and do his best not to eat treif meat. I like to think he got more Schar for his eating non kosher vegetarian food than we get for keeping kosher. We have Rabbonim for a reason. Every generation has Rabbis that Posken for that generation and every persons situation is different. I really feel that putting down a blanket statement like that is against the Torah and is insensitive for people who were told "for you it's a mitzvah to eat ______ at this point.
Human life is invaluable and every mitzvah we do is precious. The right thing to do is not always black and white. There are plenty of people who are told to do things for a refuah.

PAMOM

Thu, Jun 02 2016, 7:44 am

Royal blue --yes.

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Jun 02 2016, 11:12 am

Thanks for the validation Pamom!

amother

Floralwhite

Thu, Jun 02 2016, 11:57 am

When my DS was a baby his doctor put him on a formula that was treif (enzymes from pig intestine used to break down the milk). I could t nurse him and he had allergies to soy and other replacement formulas. We called our Rav from the pediatricians office and he gave us the ok to use the treif formula. He arrived at that decision quickly after speaking with our doctor.

We washed all of those "treif" bottles in a tub in the bathroom. It was a pain and felt weird having a set of treif bottles, but, BH, DS grew healthy and strong.

Ruchel

Sun, Jun 05 2016, 4:12 pm

Rav Rottenberg shlita allows that formula with pig stuff with only a doctor note, incl on Pessach.

That's babies.

As for adults, the then rav of the Rothschild hospital in Paris said to eat treif if there's no kosher and you need to eat for your recovery.

greenfire

Sun, Jun 05 2016, 4:19 pm

there is more to being sick than the body ... there is the mind & when one is high-maintenance mentally we must constantly be working on their stability in health - sometimes in those situations one must overlook kashrus for life

Ruchel

Sun, Jun 05 2016, 4:22 pm

A risk of becoming c'v mentally stunted as in the story is definitely considered a health risk. Even more easy for a child then, under BM.

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