OCD? | Imamother

amother

Pewter

Wed, Jun 22 2016, 1:03 am

I have a toddler... and I think she is OCD. I don't use this term lightly- I am just trying to explain the situation so I can get some advice. She must have things exactly so. She wants her cheerios in a ziplock bag, not in the bowl. She wants two cups at meals- water and milk. (and then spills both.) If she doesn't get it both she will keep crying and eat nothing. and throw all the food she has.

Nighttime routine is starting to get out of hand. Driving me crazy what she adds each night! She is 2.5 and the routine used to be just shema... now it is a few songs. and a few books. She just adds something new every so often and if I don't give in she cries and screams a terror for an hour. no exaggeration here. And might get out of her bed and leave her room. And then we end up restarting the "song and dance" to get her to bed. I have an infant as well and I need my sleep!! (this has been going on since before the baby was born but has increased a little since then but that can be due to her increased verbal skills... she was slower at talking). Night time used to be the only time I was able to do things... now she is taking up the entire night and while I used to enjoy putting her to sleep and it was all smiles, it is now really really frustrating!!!

I know I shouldn't give in to her but what am I to do?

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jun 22 2016, 7:50 am

I am not a doctor, but this doesn't sound like OCD to me. She sounds like a very strong willed child, who is possibly reacting to the new baby. Wanting to have control over her surroundings is a way of making her feel secure.

Start the "song and dance" an hour earlier, and set the kitchen timer. When the bell goes off, the time is up. It worked really well with my DD, who acted the exact same way at that age. It's funny, she could argue with me until sunrise, but she couldn't argue with a time, so she'd accept it and go to bed!

My DD also had to have all of her stuffed animals lined up in her crib, in a VERY specific order. We had to start at the end of the line, and name every one of them, until we got to the one closest to her head. I'll never forget, the last one was a tiny ladybug that we still have. I would make it zoom around the room, and then have it tickle her under the chin, while I said "And here comes the LADYBUG!" She would giggle, and that would signal that we were done with fussing around.

She outgrew that phase about a year later, but it was cute (yet exhausting) while it lasted.

Wed, Jun 22 2016, 9:06 am

Everything you wrote sounds familiar. Toddlers have a growing sense of independent thought, but limited outlets for independent action. It is natural for them to try to exert as much control over their environment (including Mommy) as they can. Probably not OCD, but frustrating for parents at times.

amother

Cyan

Wed, Jun 22 2016, 9:10 am

The way the OT explained it to me was that if it inhibits her every day function and there's no way she will be ok with the change just for once then it may be problematic. It might not be OCD, it can just be that she is stubborn, very specific and doesn't like change.
Maybe have her evaluated with an OT.
Things that concern a doctor are specific rituals that can not be broken (washing hands repeatedly, etc) OCD is a behavioral thing so you can also speak to the pediatrician.

amother

Pewter

Wed, Jun 22 2016, 9:13 am

She was like this before the baby came though so while it might have increased it didn't stem from baby (plus she is way more verbal so can now demand things).

I said OCD because she lines up her toys, puts things away in a specific way and is adamant it is done that way.

I can't go on with this nightly song and dance- she added another song! And time/timers mean nothing to her....

busydev

Wed, Jun 22 2016, 11:04 am

Sounds like a normal strong willed toddler to me. Toddlers are OCD. Some worse then others. But need things just so, put things just so, randomly add another step to routines (and everything has routines) and then tantrum about it sounds run of the mill.

They grow out of it eventually. If they don't by 4 or so then I'd look into it.

bnm

Wed, Jun 22 2016, 3:13 pm

have her evaluated. slow speech and lining things up ocd like, not being good with changes/transitions is some of the red flags for autism spectrum related stuff.

amother

Pewter

Wed, Jun 22 2016, 3:25 pm

bnm wrote:

have her evaluated. slow speech and lining things up ocd like, not being good with changes/transitions is some of the red flags for autism spectrum related stuff.

Totally not autistic spectrum. I have relatives with it and work with clients with it. She's personable, now fully caught up with speech and maybe even ahead of peers (but slow speech and fully caught up runs in the family too...), and usually fine with transitions and changes. Just has routines for bed and gets finicky if her hands aren't clean while eating.

amother

Amethyst

Wed, Jun 22 2016, 4:31 pm

abuse symptoms can look like OCD. The abused child feels they have no control over their environment and have to make up anything they can to have a measure of control. my abused son (from about age 2-4) was extremely OCD. We found out about the abuse at age 3.5. After six months of therapy he was just as easy going and flexible as all my other kids.

amother

Smokey

Wed, Jun 22 2016, 5:40 pm

I have OCD, since I was quite young.

What you describe at this age is not necessarily OCD. Toddler behaviors tend to overlap with OCD, and toddler OCD-type behavior or rituals (not acutally OCD) often starts in toddlers around 1.5, and is worst around age 2 or 3. If, after age 3, it's not improving, that's when you should get your child evaluated.

There isn't any harm in getting your kid evaluated sooner, but OCD is not always easy to distinguish in a toddler because of the overlap with toddler behavior, so please only see someone who specializes in OCD in this age group - otherwise, you may get an incorrect diagnosis (either yes OCD when there's none, or no OCD when there is). From what you describe, it could be in line with normal strong-willed toddler behavior, and if you wanted to wait until your child is over 3, I think that's fine too.

As a general rule, for many types of mental health issues (OCD included), the measure is whether it interferes in daily functioning. But, this isn't necessarily a good measure for toddlers, because lots of things that toddlers do interfere in their daily functioning - like recurring tantrums. Or being picky eaters. Or only agreeing to listen to the same music over and over again. But those things are not considered mental health disorders, just toddler behaviors. The same goes for toddler ritualistic behavior or compulsive behavior. Just because a toddler acts this way and it interferes in their life, doesn't mean it they have a mental health problem.

One thing which might be able to be used in deciding whether a toddler behavior is normal or not is to assess "frequency, duration, intensity". If the behavior (or the child's response when it goes wrong) happens more frequently AND with longer duration AND with stronger intensity (yes, all 3 together) than most other children, that would point to a problem. That problem wouldn't necessarily be OCD though. I'm not sure if your child falls into that category of higher frequency, duration, and intensity than a lot of other toddlers. Other toddlers behave in the way yours does, so I can't tell without knowing her.

It does sound like your child has a very hard time transitioning from one activity to the next or dealing with changes. This is not necessarily related to OCD at all, but if it causes higher frequency, intensity, and duration in her actions or response, then you should find ways to help her transition better. For example, giving lots of advance warnings for everything (in 10 minutes you'll go to bed, in 5 minutes you'll go to bed, in 2 minutes you'll go to bed, in 1 minute you'll go to bed), for leaving the house in the morning, or for going to eat a meal (we do it for everything with our daughter. After doing this for a while, timers work now). It also helps if at the beginning of the activity, I tell her the order of events (first we'll get into PJs, then brush our teeth, then say shema, and then 1 book only and then you get a kiss and then Ima leaves and you go to sleep - and at EACH step, remind her of the steps that are left. Especially, have her repeat them back - "how many books are we reading?" "1 book"." Or "what happens after you get a kiss?" "Ima leaves and I go to sleep"). And try having her take a transitional object - a transitional object is something she can choose from her current activity to bring to her next activity. My toddler really needs this - for example, if she's playing in the bath and it's time to go to bed, then she can take 1 bath toy (okay, sometimes it's 2) to her bedroom while she gets ready (my daughter even takes it a step further and puts the object to bed with a blanket, which seems to help her go to bed also. Plus, it's cute). Or if she's playing in the living room and we're going to eat at the table, she takes a toy from the living room and parks it near the table (we have a no toys at the table rule). When she was littler, it was always the same one or two objects she would take from one activity to the next, but now it's whatever she feels like and there's less consistency with the objects themselves.

Lastly, it sounds like you have a particularly strong-willed child. But not only that, you have a strong-willed child who knows she can get to be the one in control by demanding routines and certain orders or activities and that you will accommodate that to some extent, so she continues to behave that way because it is working for her because you accomodate (even if only a little). OCD-type behavior (and reactions to things not being right), like a lot of toddler behavior, is all about control and security - your child is trying to put control and order in her life through controlling her surroundings and controlling you, because some children have a stronger need for control than others in order to feel secure. To help her learn to feel secure without controlling everything, a well-defined framework for discipline to help put the control back in your hands will actually help her feel more secure overall and become less controlling (though it may temporarily get worse before it gets better). I recommend trying one of the following books to find an effective discipline system and better understand why strong-willed children behave the way they do:
- 1-2-3 Magic: Effective Discipline for Children by Thomas W. Phelan
- Setting Limits with Your Strong-Willed Child, Revised and Expanded 2nd Edition: Eliminating Conflict by Establishing CLEAR, Firm, and Respectful Boundaries Paperback by Robert J. Mackenzie
- The Explosive Child: A New Approach for Understanding and Parenting Easily Frustrated, Chronically Inflexible Children Paperback by Ross W. Greene PhD
1-2-3 Magic works well for us, but for more strong-willed child, you might want to try one of the other two.

Good luck!