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-> Fashion and Beauty
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 Sun, Jun 26 2016, 12:37 am
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I believe it also has to do with the issur of causing harm to one's body. Related to v'nishmartem...
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amother
cornflower
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Sun, Jun 26 2016, 12:49 am
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Someone I know (not frum) had permanent makeup done, which is the same as a tattoo. She wanted to go to the mikvah and I asked a Rav whether or not it was a chatzitza and he said that tattoos are not chotzetz. Tattooing is an issur in and of itself.
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Scrabble123
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Sun, Jun 26 2016, 12:51 am
| doctorima wrote: | | I'm curious, could you please let me know where exactly in Yeshaya it talks about Jews having tattoos? |
It's not explicit. Some mefarshim believe it's a metaphor, others about tattooing slaves, etc. I've just heard it mentioned by frum individuals that before the times of the Mishna it may have been common place for Jews to have tattoos (but not to representing mourning or chv avoda Zara). I tried to look online and get Yeshaya Mem Daled passuk Hei and Mem Tes passuk tes zayin. I would also love to hear more on the subject because my discussions regarding it have been fairly limited but I do know that there is a machlokes but that we pasken like the Rambam as mentioned before and do not permit tattoos.
Btw I do know frum women who had permanent makeup done, but haven't spoken to them about it (but am sure they asked a Shaila).
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amother
Mistyrose
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Sun, Jun 26 2016, 2:02 am
| Scrabble123 wrote: | It's not explicit. Some mefarshim believe it's a metaphor, others about tattooing slaves, etc. I've just heard it mentioned by frum individuals that before the times of the Mishna it may have been common place for Jews to have tattoos (but not to representing mourning or chv avoda Zara). I tried to look online and get Yeshaya Mem Daled passuk Hei and Mem Tes passuk tes zayin. I would also love to hear more on the subject because my discussions regarding it have been fairly limited but I do know that there is a machlokes but that we pasken like the Rambam as mentioned before and do not permit tattoos.
Btw I do know frum women who had permanent makeup done, but haven't spoken to them about it (but am sure they asked a Shaila). |
In the times of the neviim it was commonplace for Jews to worship idols. Still not okay. Pretty explicit.
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imasoftov
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Sun, Jun 26 2016, 4:45 am
| Scrabble123 wrote: | It's not explicit. Some mefarshim believe it's a metaphor, others about tattooing slaves, etc. I've just heard it mentioned by frum individuals that before the times of the Mishna it may have been common place for Jews to have tattoos (but not to representing mourning or chv avoda Zara). I tried to look online and get Yeshaya Mem Daled passuk Hei and Mem Tes passuk tes zayin. I would also love to hear more on the subject because my discussions regarding it have been fairly limited but I do know that there is a machlokes but that we pasken like the Rambam as mentioned before and do not permit tattoos.
Btw I do know frum women who had permanent makeup done, but haven't spoken to them about it (but am sure they asked a Shaila). |
The first pasuk says 'וזה יכתוב ידו לה, write their hand, without a preposition. It's not clear that the verb כתב by itself without קעקע means to tattoo, the prohibition against tattooing says וּכְתֹבֶת קַעֲקַע לֹא תִתְּנוּ בָּכֶם. What it does mean is unclear. It could even mean write with the hand, because there's no preposition.
What commentator says it's about tattooing? Or about slaves?
In the second, Hashem says he's engraved our name on his hand. As Hashem does not have hands, this must be a metaphor.
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Iymnok
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Sun, Jun 26 2016, 6:06 am
| imasoftov wrote: | The first pasuk says 'וזה יכתוב ידו לה, write their hand, without a preposition. It's not clear that the verb כתב by itself without קעקע means to tattoo, the prohibition against tattooing says וּכְתֹבֶת קַעֲקַע לֹא תִתְּנוּ בָּכֶם. What it does mean is unclear. It could even mean write with the hand, because there's no preposition.
What commentator says it's about tattooing? Or about slaves?
In the second, Hashem says he's engraved our name on his hand. As Hashem does not have hands, this must be a metaphor. |
Just seeing what you wrote, not the passuk, written on Hashem's hand may mean tefillin. Hashem's tefillin contain pessukim of the love of Yisroel.
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Scrabble123
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Sun, Jun 26 2016, 8:16 am
I'm too lazy to quote another's here so will respond to a few.
I NEVER said tattooing is allowed. I said that it is a machlokes in Mishna and that Rambam said that it is related to worshipping idols but that it extends to all tattoos and we pasken like the Rambam, but that there are those who disagreed (still we follow the rambams pasak today). That's straight information from a charedi Dayan who I discussed it with. I'm not saying that tattooing is okay and neither was he, but tattooing is not a clear cut, easy to understand isser. That discussion is probably not difficult to find, and I'm sure that if I ask someone to tell me the location I'll be able to get back to you.
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cm
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Sun, Jun 26 2016, 9:43 am
| MrsDash wrote: | So I guess cancer patients getting radiation are screwed then?  |
No, of course not.
Lifesaving medical treatment is obviously not idol worship.
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Scrabble123
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Sun, Jun 26 2016, 12:08 pm
| Seas wrote: | | https://www.ou.org/torah/machshava/tzarich-iyun/tzarich_iyun_jews_with_tattoos/ |
That was an informative article. Thanks.
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Ruchel
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Tue, Jun 28 2016, 11:01 am
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Slaves, avoda zara, hurting yourself... many reasons. The real "deal" with tattoos is halacha.
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PinkFridge
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Tue, Jun 28 2016, 11:50 am
| MrsDash wrote: | | So I guess cancer patients getting radiation are screwed then? |
Interesting. I guess there are 4 mitzvos that are yaihareg v'al yaavor.
And this would actually not be being over tattoos but mekayem v'nishmartem l'nafshoseichem.
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