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I'm Israeli does my son need visa for yeshiva in Israel
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causemommysaid




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 29 2016, 5:46 pm
heidi wrote:
How inspiring.
A true ben Torah. Living the Torah he is learning. Puke Puke


I know the Israelis here have a hard time understanding why someone might not want to be an Israeli citizen but guess what! those people exist.

Just because someones parent is a citizen doesn't mean they need to become one and join the Israeli Army when for all of their life they lived in America.
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heidi




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 29 2016, 5:50 pm
OK, I'm bowing out of this discussion bcz. everyone keeps missing my point.
When I said the army was a "major problem", I meant for OP and her son who have no reason for him to serve in the army.
See my posts above.
I find it disgusting to lie to authorities to get what you want. Using fake names and lying about your passport is not the Torah way. There has to be a better way, and if there's not then I guess the boy should not have come to Israel. Sometimes life isn't fair, but you can't cheat and deceive to try to make it that way.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 30 2016, 1:10 am
causemommysaid wrote:
Im not getting into the ethics here but many people have done what this poster is suggesting and did not end up having to register as a citizen and have to deal with the army.

They don't go checking into the background of every American kid who comes to the country for a year. If her son was never registered for a Teudat Zeut in Israel than there should not be any issues coming in as an American.
Just because many people do it, does that make it right?
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 30 2016, 1:12 am
causemommysaid wrote:
I know the Israelis here have a hard time understanding why someone might not want to be an Israeli citizen but guess what! those people exist.

Just because someones parent is a citizen doesn't mean they need to become one and join the Israeli Army when for all of their life they lived in America.
Our disgust has NOTHING to do with doing the army or becoming an israeli citizen. Gosh, I have lived here for over 13 years but I know that not everyone wants to be israeli. Of course. It is not for everyone, not at all. And as heidi said, that was not our gripe. Our gripe is with the unethical things people are telling the OP to do to get out of things. Thats what is making my blood boil. Seriously. And to tell their child to do the unethical thing. As I said before, what a wonderful lesson in great chinuch Rolling Eyes
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m in Israel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 30 2016, 2:46 am
I was hesitant to write details in my earlier post in case I was remembering wrong, but singleagain's excellent link is very clear and matches my memory.

Someone who lives abroad is not a "draft evader" and will not have any problems coming to Israel for a year, IF they take care of all the proper exemptions! All these "horror" stories are probably of people who thought they could slip under the radar and were caught.

As it says in the link

Quote:
Because they understand that there are Israelis who live abroad permanently, the law stipulates that any potential enlistee, boy or girl, who lives abroad permanently, no matter what their status is, can obtain the status of a “child of migrants” and an “Israeli citizen born abroad” or a “child of Israeli emissaries” who can defer their enlistment to the Israeli Defense Forces and not have to do their compulsory army service as long as they are defined as permanently residing abroad.


Someone in that status, who is "deferring" their military services since they live abroad has certain restrictions on travel to Israel. Basically they cannot be here for more than 120 days a year. However they are entitled to one complete year of studying, as long as they have not been here previously for more than 60 consecutive days. Once they do that one year, they can then not visit Israel for more than 60 consecutive days ever (unless obviously they get some other kind of deferral or exemption or they serve their time in the army).

Assuming your son has not lived here for more than 2 consecutive months after the age of 13 (I was wrong in my first post when I said 14), and he is only coming to learn for one year, he has no issues. But you DO need to take care of the proper paperwork, so as to avoid these types of horror stories at he airport (particularly when he will try to leave Israel). You can take care of that at your nearest embassy or consulate.

I recommend you open the link singleagain posted, if you haven't done so yet, as it is very clear and also lists further resources you can contact for more information about your exact situation.
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m in Israel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 30 2016, 2:48 am
causemommysaid wrote:
I know the Israelis here have a hard time understanding why someone might not want to be an Israeli citizen but guess what! those people exist.

Just because someones parent is a citizen doesn't mean they need to become one and join the Israeli Army when for all of their life they lived in America.


Someone who has lived their whole life in America and has no intention of moving to Israel is not required under Israeli law to join the army. There is no need to lie or be deceptive when you can just fill out the right forms and be fine for the year!

(Of course if the person is intending on staying in Israel longer that is a problem, but than your argument about them living their whole life in America is irrelevant.)
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m in Israel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 30 2016, 4:07 am
amother wrote:


I love Israel and I live here, but the government has got to fix this ridiculous problem and recognize that someone who leaves the country as a baby is not evading the draft!



I just saw this post. The law completely recognizes this. The problem is all the people who make up stories or pretend not to be Israeli altogether rather than bothering to fill out the proper paperwork. If he never presented proof that he lived outside of Israel, how is "the government" supposed to know that he is a foreign resident rather than a draft evader?

My husband was born in Israel and his parents moved back to the U.S. when he was 2 years old. When he went to learn/visit in Israel he had to get an Israeli passport and present proof to them that he had been living in the U.S. (I think he provided school records or something). Then he got this paper saying he had a dichui (deferral) as a foreign resident, and he simply showed that paper together with his passport whenever he traveled. It was a little bit of a pain to keep the paperwork current (he never went to Israel for one full year but rather for a few zemanim at different times so he ended up having to renew some of the paperwork a few times), but it certainly is less of a big deal (both morally/halachicly as well as practically) than lying and hoping you won't get caught.
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amother
Scarlet


 

Post Thu, Jun 30 2016, 7:14 am
I am sorry Heidi. You original wording was jarring to me. I understand that I misunderstood. Davening for the safety if your son and all of our chayalim.
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amother
Wine


 

Post Thu, Jun 30 2016, 4:53 pm
m in Israel wrote:

Someone in that status, who is "deferring" their military services since they live abroad has certain restrictions on travel to Israel. Basically they cannot be here for more than 120 days a year. However they are entitled to one complete year of studying, as long as they have not been here previously for more than 60 consecutive days. Once they do that one year, they can then not visit Israel for more than 60 consecutive days ever (unless obviously they get some other kind of deferral or exemption or they serve their time in the army).


And you think it is normal that a totally American man can only come to Israel for one year just because he was born there 25 years ago?

Why can't a married man come to Israel for 2 years, like every other American, without getting penalized for it?

Yes, both examples I gave were married men, not 18 year old army-aged kids.
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