Self esteem and torah values

Seraph

Thu, May 31 2007, 2:27 pm

From another thread:

Motek wrote:

the latest secular value that has become practically an avoda zara is the worship of the concept called "self-esteem." Nowadays it is considered vital to one's mental health to esteem oneself. I know, I know, Dr. Twerski attempts to explain how esteeming oneself does not contradict the trait of anivus (humility) though he doesn't get into "meod meod hevai shfal ruach (be exceedingly lowly of spirit). This is not the thread to delve into this issue..

(Making a thread on this then...)

Bishvili nivra ha'olam.
Anochi afar vi'efer.
Self esteem.

How should these three play out in the life of a frum yid?

TammyTammy

Thu, May 31 2007, 2:33 pm

breslov wrote:

From another thread:

Motek wrote:

(Making a thread on this then...)

Bishvili nivra ha'olam.
Anochi afar vi'efer.
Self esteem.

How should these three play out in the life of a frum yid?

When Avraham said "anochi afar v'eifer" let's not forget to Whom he was talking. Compared to his fellow man, things were a bit different.

That being said, it is important that one understand and have enough self-esteem to handle her responsibilities. For example, take Shaul. When he failed in his mission, it was pointed out by Shmuel that it was precisely because he didn't have enough self-esteem to handle his mission at king that he failed.

Now, not all of us are kings and not all of us have such awsome responsibilities. But we do all have some responsibilities, and if we have no self-esteem to the point where we let people walk all over us, then we cannot do our jobs. If I let my husband, or my children, or my boss simply treat me like garbage, I'd fail in each of my jobs. I have to have enough self-esteem to realize that I have value as a wife, as a mother and as a database administrator to be able to accomplish my tasks.

Tammy

mimivan

Thu, May 31 2007, 2:55 pm

We are told not to regard ourselves as rashoim so we can serve Hashem with joy...obviously, self-esteem does have some role in Yiddishkeit. Although in the secular world, it is overdone...

Motek

Thu, May 31 2007, 3:16 pm

They "play out" when one lives a life as the Talmud says:

"I was not created except to serve my Maker"

which has nothing to do with the millions books, articles, and speeches about self-esteem.

Ruchel

Thu, May 31 2007, 3:26 pm

There is a saying, one must have in one pocket a paper marked "I am but ashes" and in the other pocket "the world was only created for me". I don't remember if it is the Baal shemtov or someone else.

gryp

Thu, May 31 2007, 3:28 pm

That's the famous reason the Torah was given on Har Sinai- a mountain but a humble, low one.

red sea

Thu, May 31 2007, 5:35 pm

breslov wrote:

From another thread:

Motek wrote:

(Making a thread on this then...)

Bishvili nivra ha'olam.
Anochi afar vi'efer.
Self esteem.

How should these three play out in the life of a frum yid?

the olam is also nothing but afar v'eifer , no?

A very wise man once said that self esteem is really torah-wise in the phrase "im ain ani li mi li, u'ksheani l'atzmi ma ani....

does that make sense?

amother

Fri, Jun 01 2007, 10:37 am

Ruchel wrote:

There is a saying, one must have in one pocket a paper marked "I am but ashes" and in the other pocket "the world was only created for me". I don't remember if it is the Baal shemtov or someone else.

I think it was R' Tzadok Hacohen m"Lublin?

Motek

Sun, Jun 03 2007, 3:10 pm

It is said on several people, don't know if they are all correct or none or some Very Happy

Did not hear it said about R' Tzadok.

Atali

Sun, Jun 03 2007, 9:10 pm

I think that self-esteem does have a place in yiddishkiet, since every person is valuable as a result of being created btzelem Elokim. It is just necessary for the person to remember that this is the reason they are special, not that they are special as a result of their achievements.

In fact, this appropriate type of "self-esteem" is essential for avodas Hashem, since otherwise one could become depressed, which would prevent a person from serving Hashem B'simcha.

Lechatchila Ariber

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 8:22 pm

Tanya teaches us the concept that having a 'self' causes us to have self esteem problems.
When you have no 'self' then there are no self esteem issues and less conflict.

now my question is, is confidence and self esteem the same thing?

faigie

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 8:41 pm

self esteem, means that I am a worthwhile creation.
confidence means, that I have the tools in my pocket to handle life. I am an effective person.

amother

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 8:54 pm

faigie wrote:

self esteem, means that I am a worthwhile creation.
confidence means, that I have the tools in my pocket to handle life. I am an effective person.

very very wise, I keep rereading your post!

Lechatchila Ariber

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 9:10 pm

faigie wrote:

self esteem, means that I am a worthwhile creation.
confidence means, that I have the tools in my pocket to handle life. I am an effective person.

ok good diferentiation
although I wonder if self esteem is mostly translated that way.
feeling like a worthwhile creation can be conducive to being a productive person and giving to society.
What about those who use self esteem, to serve them"selves" over others?

faigie

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 10:27 pm

What about those who use self esteem, to serve them"selves" over others?

that, ironically, shows a lack of self esteem.