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Not a SINGLE mention of support of Israel in the entire DNC!
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 29 2016, 12:47 am
PAMOM wrote:
1. The National Jewish Democratic Conference has the pins.

2. There were flags all over the convention site--in the halls, in the suites, and on the floor of the convention. Delegates and other attendees had flags tustntheyvesved during speeches. I don't know what you could see on TV but I know what was actually there.


Translation please?
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 29 2016, 2:41 am
I don't see Hilary as extremely liberal, I view her as a moderate Democrat.

And yet, I've seen a lot of pandering to the extreme left during the DNC. Weird to me. Is that the demographic she's trying to appeal to now? I think her message could have been more streamlined than this.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 29 2016, 2:42 am
happybeingamom wrote:
A short term solution that saves many lives.

I don't think there is any long term solution because the people in play don't want it.

But it doesn't make sense to talk about something as "saving lives" in a vacuum - the question is how many lives it saves relative to other types of action.

Compared to doing absolutely nothing at all about rockets AND not protecting people, the Iron Dome saves, statistically speaking, about 4-5 lives per month of frequent rocket attacks. (I'm comparing the non-Iron Dome casualty rate not to the first years of rocket attacks, when people had no protection at all, but to the post-'Color Red' alarm era, when nearly all rocket attacks have been preceded by a warning siren.)

(The Iron Dome also saves infrastructure, albeit at such a high cost that it might have been worth it financially to just let the buildings get destroyed and then rebuild them.)

Compared to an aggressive military response to rockets, OTOH - it's not clear how many lives Iron Dome saves. So if the choice is Iron Dome + weak military response vs. No Iron Dome + airstrikes to take out rocket capabilities and top terrorist commanders - if that's the choice, it's far from clear that Iron Dome would save the most Israeli lives.

It could be seen as saving lives in Gaza, though (although it's not clear how much of a long-term solution it would be there, either - after all, Hamas' response to Iron Dome so far has been to encourage 13-year-olds to go out and stab people, and that's gotten plenty of young Palestinians killed, too. Although it's been more stab-happy people getting killed, with very few innocents caught in the crossfire, so that's good)(also, many of the civilians who died in the last Gaza-Israel conflict were caught in the crossfire during gunfights or mortar shell fights related to the destruction of tunnels, not to the destruction of rockets, AND many more were killed by misfired Hamas rockets, which would be more of an issue, not less, if Hamas' rocket fire went mostly unchecked. So it's complicated).
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 29 2016, 2:48 am
I do think Iron Dome is very cool technology, and that it might end up saving many lives if Hezbollah ever rebuilds itself enough to launch another attack on Israel.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 29 2016, 4:29 am
ora_43 wrote:
I do think Iron Dome is very cool technology, and that it might end up saving many lives if Hezbollah ever rebuilds itself enough to launch another attack on Israel.

Since they are funded by Iran, which now has $150 billion (thanks to Obama), it is not unlikely.
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fmt4




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 29 2016, 6:14 am
gold21 wrote:
I don't see Hilary as extremely liberal, I view her as a moderate Democrat.

And yet, I've seen a lot of pandering to the extreme left during the DNC. Weird to me. Is that the demographic she's trying to appeal to now? I think her message could have been more streamlined than this.


Yes , she is trying to placate all the Bernie supporters.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 29 2016, 6:48 am
gp2.0 wrote:
So as posters here seem to be indirectly answering my question: it actually wouldn't harm Israel all that much in a worst case scenario where the US withdrew support, but the US would lose some advantages.

So what's with the sense of impending doom?

So far people have mostly been discussing the specific issue of US military aid.

But direct military aid is far from being the only aspect of US-Israel ties. Other important aspects:
- The US vote in the UNSC, which has prevented Arab countries from passing anti-Israel bills despite their near-automatic UN majority vote.
- US support or lack thereof for Israel's enemies.
- US administration support for or condemnation of attempts to boycott Israel.
- America is *the* world superpower, so its opinion on Israel is particular significant. Especially re: political or economic pressure on Israel to make concessions to its enemies.

Right now US-Israel ties are mixed. On the one hand, the Obama administration kept up the military aid, condemned terrorism, and did prevent some anti-Israel UN votes. OTOH, the Obama administration was also pretty critical of Israel, gave significant aid to Gaza and to Abbas, ignored Palestinian leaders' incitement, and put pressure on Israel to negotiate for peace despite their being nobody on the other side willing to negotiate.

The Congress was even more positive, and brought attention to official Palestinian Authority support for terrorism, among other things.

Those things are what Israel stands to lose if whoever takes power in America doesn't see a political benefit to publicly backing Israel. We could end up in a position where there's very little condemnation of anti-Israel terrorism, and extreme political and economic pressure to make dangerous concessions without getting peace in return and/or to not fight back against terrorism. We could end up in a position where the international community funds terrorist groups, allowing them to keep fighting and costing many Israelis their lives - that is, we could end up in a position where that's even more true than it is today.

It's all in Hashem's hands. But to me, part of our normal hishtadlut should be to notice the political trends and respond to them. And this is one of those things. Even if there was mention of Israel at the DNC, the burning of Israeli flags outside by Bernie supporters, the criticism of even Bernie for being too pro-Israel by the same people - those things are a warning sign.
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amother
Maroon


 

Post Fri, Jul 29 2016, 6:52 am
Oh God help us all.

Israel is protected by God as it's written, God protects the land of Israel every second and Israel is the safest place in the world for a Jew.

I wouldn't worry so much about lack of support for Israel from Hillary's side, we saw that for 8 years with Obama, who clearly hates Israel. I would more worry about how absolutely evil she is. Cunning, manipulative and vile. I would take a tantrum in baby any day over this calculated evil.

Americans keep banging on about antisemitism in Europe. America is in denial, the antisemitism in Europe doesn't compare to what Hillary will bring to America's streets.
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happybeingamom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 29 2016, 7:46 am
amother wrote:
Oh God help us all.

Israel is protected by God as it's written, God protects the land of Israel every second and Israel is the safest place in the world for a Jew.

I wouldn't worry so much about lack of support for Israel from Hillary's side, we saw that for 8 years with Obama, who clearly hates Israel. I would more worry about how absolutely evil she is. Cunning, manipulative and vile. I would take a tantrum in baby any day over this calculated evil.

Americans keep banging on about antisemitism in Europe. America is in denial, the antisemitism in Europe doesn't compare to what Hillary will bring to America's streets.


I am not voting for Hillary as of now but on what bases do you make this comment. I see no facts to support what you are saying.
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Clarissa




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 29 2016, 7:57 am
amother wrote:
Oh God help us all.

Israel is protected by God as it's written, God protects the land of Israel every second and Israel is the safest place in the world for a Jew.

I wouldn't worry so much about lack of support for Israel from Hillary's side, we saw that for 8 years with Obama, who clearly hates Israel. I would more worry about how absolutely evil she is. Cunning, manipulative and vile. I would take a tantrum in baby any day over this calculated evil.

Americans keep banging on about antisemitism in Europe. America is in denial, the antisemitism in Europe doesn't compare to what Hillary will bring to America's streets.
How's that tin foil hat fitting these days?
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PAMOM




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 29 2016, 8:52 am
FF--fixed my post!!
I assume you are all aware of the place in her acceptance speech where Hillary said that one of her priorities is unwavering support for Israel.
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BasMelech120




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 29 2016, 1:31 pm
Maya wrote:
Wow, you have really important priorities when seeking a president

Let's see, should we go with the crazy egomaniac with the American flag pin, or the capable stable public servant without the pin?

Yeah makes total sense Rolling Eyes


I was specifically addressing nationalistic symbolism. Not a word about policies or my opinions on them in the entire conversation.
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MrsDash




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 29 2016, 1:43 pm
BasMelech120 wrote:
Just had to add something on that note: Hillary Rodham Clinton may be the first nominee for President accepting the role without the American flag pin on her lapel...


She's also the first nominee without a p£nis.
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PAMOM




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 29 2016, 2:29 pm
Mrs. Dash,

To me, your post is a perfect commentary on national symbolism. Thank you.
I remember crying when I was told my dd would be the "chazzanit" on a given day at her school. I hadn't even known this was a word. The symbolism (if you're of that school of semiotics) made me even more determined to show my DC the many options open for a dedicated Jewish life.

I'm of the generation where I'm in awe of the world's changes for the better.

Shabbat Shalom.
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Clarissa




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 29 2016, 3:53 pm
http://www.timesofisrael.com/t.....-aid/
^^^
Still great for Israel?
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 31 2016, 1:47 pm
Clarissa wrote:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-says-hell-make-israel-pay-for-defense-aid/
^^^
Still great for Israel?

Yes!
Time to walk away from US aid

OK seriously, I don't know that Trump is the less-bad-for-Israel candidate, let alone great for Israel, but if he cut military aid there'd be more than a few Israelis on his side. And if any US military projects crash and burn as a result, he can always blame his predecessors.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 31 2016, 1:53 pm
IMO Israel would be much better off with a US President who cuts aid to *all* countries in the Middle East than with one who supports both Israel and its enemies with military aid and training.

(I would have been hoping for a Sanders presidency, if it weren't for his near-complete lack of understanding (IMNSHO) of what terrorism is and how it works Confused . (Of course, Trump isn't looking much better, his approach seems to boil down to TRUMP SMASH!!))
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Tirza




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 31 2016, 2:17 pm
To address OP's original point:
In her acceptance speech, Hillary Clinton said, "We must keep supporting Israel's security."
I was disappointed that she mentioned this point so briefly, but I was relieved that she spoke only of Israel's security and didn't mention anything about pushing Israel toward another pointless peace process.
This was definitely intentional.
And the pro-Palestinian protesters at the DNC were just that-protesters. They don't represent the Democratic position. That's why they were protesting.
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