kaf-Q symbol? | Imamother

OOTforlife

Sun, Aug 11 2013, 11:19 pm

chanamiriam wrote:

OOTforlife wrote:

chanamiriam wrote:

DrMom wrote:

FranticFrummie wrote:

OK, here's the scoop.

DH says that he's a Conservative rabbi, and that he's not under anyone's supervision. It's his own thing. No Orthodox group will accept it.

As far as I know, he is a *conservative* (small "c") rabbi, but he is Orthodox. He is a conservative columnist who backed Reagan in the 80s, Romney in the last election (I've read his articles in the Wall St Journal).

I don't know anything about this kashrut agency, but please don't start unsubstantiated rumors about individuals.

I am a mashgiach. I have done my research and asked four major agencies for their opinions. I have further checked other major agencies web sites. None of them recommend this Hechsher. Obviously if someone knows the tab in question and is comfortable with his hashgacha, then they can hold by him. Otherwise, to recommend this mark knowing what I know ( and nothing about the individual, just what I have been told about the supervision) it would be irresponsible to suggest that an orthodox person should hold by it.

There are plenty of Orthodox
rabbis whose hashgachas aren't widely accepted. This doesn't make the rabbi Conservative.

I did not say he was conservative. Only that in the course of my work I have done my research and not been able to find any orthodox mainstream organization who recommends this Hechsher. I also said that anyone who knows him personally can make his own decision.

Furthermore, I don't consider conservative an insult or a reason not to Hold by someone's supervision. Personally, I think our local conservative rabbi's hashgacha is excellent and I would eat in his Shul. Quote the person who called him conservative as an insult, NOT me.

It was the chain of responses, and your response to DrMom that gave me the impression you were saying his hashgacha's lack of acceptance somehow made him non Orthodox. My bad.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Aug 11 2013, 11:25 pm

OOT, my apologies. I should have made it clear that the "conservative" comments were for DrMom, not you.

Sometimes stacking quotes can cause more problems than they solve!

OOTforlife

Sun, Aug 11 2013, 11:29 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

OOT, my apologies. I should have made it clear that the "conservative" comments were for DrMom, not you.

Sometimes stacking quotes can cause more problems than they solve!

No problem... been there myself Smile

shanie5

Sun, Aug 11 2013, 11:54 pm

I had a child in a situation where kosher food was a problem. I was told he can eat bread with that hechsher if there was no alternative. However, the item that I had in my house with that hechsher I was not allowed to use (came in a basket s/o gave me).

My son refused to eat the bread.

DrMom

Mon, Aug 12 2013, 1:54 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

OOTforlife wrote:

chanamiriam wrote:

DrMom wrote:

FranticFrummie wrote:

OK, here's the scoop.

DH says that he's a Conservative rabbi, and that he's not under anyone's supervision. It's his own thing. No Orthodox group will accept it.

There are plenty of Orthodox
rabbis whose hashgachas aren't widely accepted. This doesn't make the rabbi Conservative.

DH told me that he found something online that said that he was a Conservative rabbi. Maybe he has Orthodox smicha, but took a job at a Conservative shul. I've heard of it happening.

I don't care what his political view are, that was not what I was discussing. I also don't see my giving over what I was just told as "slamming" anyone. DH read it, you're free to bring your own research.

BTW, why are you getting so upset by this, is he a relative of yours?

(PS: DH has considered taking a job as a shochet for Hebrew National, even though we would never eat from them. In this economy, a job is a job.)

Not sure to whom your remark is directed. I'll bite:

First to be clear: (1) There may indeed be legitimate reasons not to use a certain heksher. (2) No, I am not related to any of these people (as far as I know).

What annoys me:

Many times on imamother, people inquire about a lesser-known heksher. Almost inevitably, someone will say, "I head it's not relaible," or "Oh, I heard he's Conservative*" or "I heard he doesn't really check anything," etc. Half the time, it's all half-information and innuendo, and nobody really knows what they are talking about, yet they spread rumors.

In one case ( another Triangle-K example: http://imamother.com/forum/vie.....angle ), someone posted "I heard there is no rabbi at all," and a relative of the rabbi in question wrote in to say how amused she was to hear that her relative didn't exist. Wink

Bottom line: If you don't know the reason, don't speculate and besmirch someone's name. It's irresponsible.

*See for example, this thread about Triangle-K: http://imamother.com/forum/vie.....art=0

FranticFrummie

Mon, Aug 12 2013, 2:03 am

DH spoke to real human beings on the phone. He's very careful not to spread loshon hara, so I trust him. If anyone proves me wrong, I will gladly edit my entries and post a big apology to everyone concerned.

DH didn't have to get involved at all. I know that he's a naturally curious person, and loves doing research. When I ask him a question he takes it as a compliment and gives it his all. He won't be satisfied until he gets a definitive answer. He has no personal agenda in this, and will always look for the leniency in things. Personally, we really hate that excuse of "it just isn't done", and we want to get to the bottom of "why". There's no mitzvah in avoiding something that is permitted!

Right now he's waiting for several calls and emails to be returned. If I can bring some more solid information either pro or con, I will report back. Again, if my previous posts were wrong, they will be corrected.

I hope that makes you feel a little better.

DrMom

Mon, Aug 12 2013, 4:21 am

FF, I don't know what your DH looked up or whom he called. I just did a simple Google search and turned up this:

1. Rabbi Aryeh Spero is on the list of 100 Orthodox rabbis speaking out against same-sx wedding ceremonies:
http://www.algemeiner.com/2011.....tion/

2. Conservative (as in politically conservative) Spotlight: Rabbi Aryeh Spero.

Quote:

Some Americans believe in America. And others believe in Europe. "We are slipping away from what made us great," said Orthodox Rabbi Aryeh Spero, head of Caucus for America and a radio talk show host in the New York City area. "

http://www.caucusforamerica.co.....ID=43

3. A quote from a Contemporary American Judaism: Transformation and Renewal:

Quote:

As politically conservative Orthodox Rabbi Aryeh Sperer puts it, "haredim are not Amish..."

(Huge URL removed)

4. An Edah (MO association) program from 1995 has him billed in a session in their conference:

Quote:

Modern Orthodox Political Values and our Prayers for the Government

Rabbi Benjamin Samuels

Rabbi Aryeh Spero

http://www.edah.org/schedule.htm

Again, I know nothing about his kashrut agency, but the man clearly identifies as an Orthodox rabbi.

Last edited by DrMom on Mon, Aug 12 2013, 4:35 am; edited 2 times in total

FranticFrummie

Mon, Aug 12 2013, 4:30 am

Thank you. Corrections will be made ASAP!

FranticFrummie

Tue, Aug 13 2013, 1:26 am

DH got this email a few minutes ago:

Dear --------:

Our hashgacha service is Orthodox and we adhere to the general guidelines in place by the main hasgacha agencies. Kosher agencies differ from time-to-time on relatively minor issues. I am on the phone with the OU, Star K and others all the time. They are, however, not clearing houses to give carte blanche support for other hashgacha agencies, but they always call us regarding our products on a one-on-one product basis and are using many of the products we certify.

We always make our visits, have good mashgichim, and know every detail of what is going on in the food factories we certify. We limit ourselves to a confined geographic area that can be reached by car, except for a couple of factories where we use the local Vaad. We do not certify outside the U.S. We stick to what we know and remain satisfied being a smaller agency. I, as the rabbinic administrator, have in my head a picture of every factory and all its ingredients, having been to each one dozens of times. If you have any specific questions, feel free to email me. I received my semicha from Rabbi Gifter and Rabbi Sorotzkin, Telz Yeshivah, forty years ago. Sincerely,

Rabbi Aryeh Spero
Quality Kosher Supervision

amother

Tue, Aug 13 2013, 4:58 pm

I live in Ohio and I can tell you this: Rabbi Spero is a nice person from a nice family. He has yiras shamayim. A problem with his hechsher is a lower frequency of inspection than in many other hechsherim. People who have no problem eating products with his hechsher are on the modern end of the spectrum. People who are mainstream JPF and black hatters don't use it except if there's a certain product they've been told is okay to use. Ask your local kashrus agency for more details.

willow

Wed, Aug 14 2013, 5:30 am

Amother above so you are saying it is not about him personally. It means that ppl that choose not to eat it do so because they don't inspect frequently. That is fine.

Amarante

Thu, Aug 18 2016, 7:23 pm

Wondering if there is any update on this matter. There is an on line company that has some fantastic stuff. Their farm and factory is in Ohio so it makes sense they might use a local organization since they are a boutique type of company

Rothschild Farms products. 😀

Found this article. Seems to be a legit organization which operates in a small geographical area

http://daytonjewishobserver.or.....knew/

Last edited by Amarante on Thu, Aug 18 2016, 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

Amarante

Thu, Aug 18 2016, 7:28 pm

double post

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Aug 18 2016, 8:14 pm

I live in Ohio and have extensive knowledge of kashrus in this area and we do not trust the supervision of Rabbi Spero and his kof q, which is a chaval, because there are many products (actually, probably most) in the bread aisle with his symbol on it. Sad

Amarante

Thu, Aug 18 2016, 8:17 pm

Thank you. My mouth was watering at some of the products so I am disappointed. 😥😥

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Aug 18 2016, 8:19 pm

Dayton is closer to Cincinnati than Canton. I don't think there is a single Mike-Sells chips/cheese curls we eat here. I can check their chips, but I'm pretty sure I haven't seen a hechsher on them and I've definitely looked since 2011. I wonder if that was short lived. The pretzels might have been ok, I don't remember; there are cheaper brands around Smile

Klosterman's is now under the CK (formerly VHC -- Vaad Hoier of Cincinnati, now Cincinnati Kosher) and their bread and buns are totally ok with that symbol. I don't know how easy it is to obtain past the local area though.

No clue what Rothschild Farm products are, though, to begin to tell you if his hechsher is accepted on that.

Amarante

Thu, Aug 18 2016, 8:25 pm

Robert Rothschils Farms sells gourmet salsas, mustards, honey, preserves etc. I think they must have started out as a farm stand. I assume they are mostly sold on line so you wouldn't see in stores.

http://www.robertrothschild.com

I checked store locator for Columbus and they are in very few stores and oddball ones at that.