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Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children
Do people really tip at camp?!
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MrsDash




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 6:21 am
We weren't allowed to tip. Can you believe our camps paid these kids decent wages that they didn't have to use more of the parents money to make up for crappy pay? The nerve of our camp...
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 6:22 am
amother wrote:
Wow, I have never heard of this. None of the camps my child went to ever included tipping and if anything, it would not be allowed.


Im shocked there's a person who claims to have never even heard of the concept of tipping counselors. Where did you grow up??? What area of the world do you live in???
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 6:24 am
amother wrote:
Yes, you do need to tip. Counselors earn peanuts for very hard work. They rely on tips to make the job worthwhile.


But why does my $1800 (early bird special) not afford the camp to pay their staff a decent wage? How is this possible?
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 6:25 am
amother wrote:


Also the teenagers that work are also working so parents don't have to pay for them to go to camp and they do have fun too and they go on the trips and such. I don't think any teenager is working for tips.


Last year my dd worked one month. She worked really hard. She got only 5 tips for $10 each. The camp also didn't pay her alot. When she added it up she decided it wasnt worth it. She actually volunteered somewhere this summer where she knew it would be hard work and no pay. She said its better than hard work and little pay. The problem is that the camps dont pay the staff enough to make it worth for some to work. Alot of day camps were still looking for staff when camp already started. There are girls that would do it if the pay was better and the camp director treats them nicely.
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amother
Goldenrod


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 6:32 am
So then parents should not let their daughters or sons work for so little if I am paying top dollar for day camp part of the fees should go towards paying the kids. But it's not my fault camps want to keep all the money for themselves. Why are we getting mad at parents that are overcharged in the first place and not mad at camps that are abusingn our kids.

And no sometimes it's not poor financial planning that parents don't have money there are other reasons. I honestly hope Hashem doesn't test you one day and your husbands business goes under overnight but don't judge people so harshly because if you do what you can't understand usually happens to you.
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amother
Green


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 6:46 am
Op here.

I don't understand the comments that if I'm sending to camp, the extra couple hundred is not a big deal.

Camp is a necessity that's worked into our budget. We work, and we have very active kids and it would be very detrimental to have them stifled and not active (physically and in learning) all summer. The extra few hundred dollars, in cash lump payment, seems ridiculous.

And labeling it hakaras hatov is disingenuous. I have hakaras hatov to many people, including bus drivers, sales people, professionals, and sanitation workers, that doesn't mean I go around squandering my hard earned money.

I didn't grow up in NY, but from my understanding the counselors are getting youth core--some kind of payment from the government? That plus the really high camp fees should really cover 8 weeks of employment.
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animeme




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 6:53 am
I hear you. But I don't understand the idea of "the camp keeps it for themselves". Besides salaries, the money goes towards building rental, often busing to various activities including daily swimming, pool rentals, trips, and various "big exciting activities". Maybe it's time for parents to organize a camp that has less bells and whistles and costs less, like the school issue.
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amother
Green


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 6:55 am
Op again.

Some of thr responds make it seem as if I'm asking why I have to pay for camp, as if I'm expecting it for free. (And I never accused that 'they keep it for themselves'.)

Hello! I've already paid. A lot. Why have the camps made this normalized standard of hefty tips? Don't we all struggle enough as it is, between sky high tuition and csmp costs?
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 7:06 am
amother wrote:
Im shocked there's a person who claims to have never even heard of the concept of tipping counselors. Where did you grow up??? What area of the world do you live in???

Are you serious? Do you realize that not all places in the world or even (gasp) America do tipping? I first heard about tipping when I moved to NY. In fact, on the camps where I sent my son to overnight camp, they sent a letter saying that they specifically do not allow tipping, and if you wish to acknowledge the superior counselor, the best way to do it is with a note and make sure to tell the supervisor how wonderful he was. I dont live NY anymore and my boys camp sent a letter saying to please acknowledge the hard work that the counselor did over the summer, and it specifically said that the acknowledgment does not have to be monetary. They suggested writing a nice thank you note.

I have a lot to say on the topic of tipping counselors, I'll do it later on when I have more time.
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 7:12 am
watergirl wrote:
Are you serious? Do you realize that not all places in the world or even (gasp) America do tipping? I first heard about tipping when I moved to NY. In fact, on the camps where I sent my son to overnight camp, they sent a letter saying that they specifically do not allow tipping, and if you wish to acknowledge the superior counselor, the best way to do it is with a note and make sure to tell the supervisor how wonderful he was. I dont live NY anymore and my boys camp sent a letter saying to please acknowledge the hard work that the counselor did over the summer, and it specifically said that the acknowledgment does not have to be monetary. They suggested writing a nice thank you note.

I have a lot to say on the topic of tipping counselors, I'll do it later on when I have more time.



I realize some places don't do tipping. My daughters camp also sends a letter to the parents requesting they don't tip.....I'm shocked that someone seemed to be completely unaware of the entire concept of tipping counselors irregardless of whether their camp suggests tipping or not.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 7:16 am
amother wrote:
I realize some places don't do tipping. My daughters camp also sends a letter to the parents requesting they don't tip.....I'm shocked that someone seemed to be completely unaware of the entire concept of tipping counselors irregardless of whether their camp suggests tipping or not.

Like I said, before I lived in NY,I also had never heard of tipping. My best friend who is from Texas was shocked also when I told her that tipping was a thing. If you live in a place where camps dont do tipping, why would you have heard of such a concept? Not so hard to understand.
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 7:21 am
watergirl wrote:
Like I said, before I lived in NY,I also had never heard of tipping. My best friend who is from Texas was shocked also when I told her that tipping was a thing. If you live in a place where camps dont do tipping, why would you have heard of such a concept? Not so hard to understand.


I suppose. I guess that person who made that comment was from Texas or perhaps Nebraska.
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amother
Pewter


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 7:24 am
I have worked in daycamps when I was younger. While tops were nice we understood it is hard for parents to pay it and I never relied in them. That being said I usually do tip the counselors. This swear I bh had a baby a week before camp ended. I told dh to tip and he forgot. One of the camps was a backyard camp and I know the counselors and plan on dropping off the tip. The camp my son went to I honestly was very unhappy and am not giving a tip. If I would tip in the camp he went to (and didbthe suggested amounts) I would be paying an extra 200 dollars for the summer.
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amother
Peach


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 7:29 am
In the UK and Europe, girls don't get tipped. My daughter is getting paid approx. $100 per week plus food and accomodations and money towards travel (she is working in another city). I'm pretty sure the big camps make a good profit. Certainly they should have enough to pay an adequate wage to teenagers.

Many parents would rather their kids were working in camps then at other work, and so would most teens. Babysitting might be better paid but its not tons of fun.

In any case, if I as a parent don't have to tip my younger kids counselors, I will have more money to put aside for my kids for seminary, college etc.
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cm




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 7:29 am
Some camps (including the entire Ramah network, although I doubt very many imamothers send there) do not permit tipping.

I think camp tips are in the same category (sort of) as all the fees tacked on to school tuition. It allows the camp to keep the official tuition lower which attracts customers, although the actual out-of-pocket cost is about the same (lower fee plus tip vs. higher fee).

Even at non-tipping camps, the pay is astonishingly low. I think the idea is that regular non-specialty counselors, mostly teenagers with no training to speak of, are having a fun vacation of their own just by being there (and room and board, if it's a sleepaway camp). I have heard - although I don't know if it's true - that some lower-priced camps do not pay their counselors at all but provide lots of nighttime activities for them instead. A little bit extra at the end of the season to acknowledge a job well done is appropriate, I think, but certainly optional if it brings hardship to the family.

Some big fancy camps are money makers (I'm thinking of private, for-profit secular businesses), but the average shul day camp isn't in this category, and doesn't cost families nearly as much. Once you factor in insurance and basic expenses, yes, it really does cost that much to take care of your child at camp.


Last edited by cm on Tue, Aug 23 2016, 8:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 7:40 am
amother wrote:
I suppose. I guess that person who made that comment was from Texas or perhaps Nebraska.
Rolling Eyes
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jj1236




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 8:06 am
I work at a day camp in New Jersey where tipping isn't allowed. The camp is expensive though, I think 3,000 a summer but it's a really good camp where the kids do a ton. I'm not a counselor; I'm a higher staff member and considering that I get paid very little, I can only imagine what the counselors make and without tips. I think you should think of it as you're paying much less for a camp than you would for a camp where tipping isn't allowed , and technically you're still saving money. At least for next summer try to take tips into account or send to a camp where there is no tipping.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 8:07 am
I don't send to camp, so I can't comment on my tipping policy. however, when I worked at camp, I got very few tips. it made me sad, but I never felt I was owed anything. fact is, parents pay the camp already. it's the camp's responsibility to pay the counselors once camp tuition is paid. I understood that as a teen.

now, the camp I worked for one year managed to get away with not informing the teens of their pay before taking the jobs. and yes, we got paid $200 for the whole summer. I never worked there again, and I would not allow my kids to work in similar camps. I'd rather my kids get summer jobs working at a pizza place or something. I don't think the tip-dependent environment is good for anyone.
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amother
Goldenrod


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 8:29 am
In Monsey parents don't want their kids working at pizza shops and would rather camps and camps know this and take advantage and pay very little. It's the parents pride that they have their teens work for so little so don't get mad at parents for not tipping don't let your child work there.

And in Monsey it's so hard to get a counselor job because everyone wants it for their child. So obviously the little pay people are happy with.
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amother
Papaya


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 8:37 am
Of course, most camps are a business to make money. But, they make money because they pay their counselors very little, and don't assume that adult counselors get their kids get camp for free, that is not true for a lot of camps.

. the pay for camp is high yet adults still choose to work for low pay for various reasons. I will compare this to high tuition costs because class mothers harass me to tip teachers ...at various times during the year. Why am I paying exorbitant tuition when teachers get paid so little??the school should pay them more and show parents where all the money is going!!

. (yes, I know yeshivas are not for profit unlike camps, but the way a lot of yeshivas are run with board being in control....it is all about money!!)

. to the person who said adults are choosing to work for low pay,, the same can be said for teaching yet people say its not hakaras hatov if you don't give!!



. I know relatives who told me her parents who are teachers in the Jewish schools never got raises even when tuition was increased.

. to the mother who said it shouldn't be that you always have to give money to show hakaras hatov, I agree with you. But, for some reason, I think people will disagree and criticize me for saying this. (maybe because a lot of the posters are teachers or have dh are rebbes)???
.
. maybe those classmothers who harass me for tips for teachers are not paying as much tuition as I am. But, I am overwhelmed with cost of tuition, and I need the even ten dollars to buy chicken for shabbos!!

.
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