EPIC fights between DS and DH

amother

Cyan

Sun, Oct 09 2016, 1:38 am

Let me start by saying that I'm not sure if this goes here or under Shalom Bayit.

My husband and my 10 year old son have EPIC arguments. And when I mean Epic, I mean they both explode!

It should be noted that our 10 yo DS is an incredibly impulsive and explosive kid with anxiety and ADHD who takes meds to help calm him down, and which work, most of the time. We've tried every med out there. This is the best case scenario.

It should also be noted that these meds are a big point of contention in our marriage (DH says their side effects are ruining our child and are making him even more volatile, I argue the contrary, that it's when dh forgets to give them to him or when they start to wear off that we see problems... It is the source of I would say 95% of all of our arguments. But I digress.)

It usually starts with Dh asking DS to do something he doesn't want to do (daven, get dressed, do homework, set the table, whatever) and DS responding in a not super respectful way (anywhere from ignoring the request, to flat out saying no, to YELLING no) Then dh starts to lose his temper and raise his voice and tell DS that he should be respectful. Which leads to DS freaking out. Which leads to DH freaking out.

By freaking out, I mean screaming "I hate you dad!", throwing dh's stuff on the floor, spitting, name calling (DS) and Screaming, yelling, ignoring, saying he'd be better off without a dad like his, saying he's ruining the other kids, etc (DH)

These arguments are getting out of hand and they're affecting all the other kids.

Meanwhile, I've taken the other kids to the other side of the house and am singing at the top of my voice to drown out the screaming that is happening, hoping the kids won't hear it. Which I know they do. And I feel torn because I feel like maybe I should be there to referee.

I want to stress the fact that they've never gotten physical. Dh has never laid a hand on DS. But they get scary. And they've gotten more intense as Ds has gotten older. DS even took a kitchen knife once and raised it as if he was going to hurt DH (who was way across the other side of the room...) He wasn't going to do anything... I don't think... It was more of a... I don't know, a call for help? a call for attention?

These crazy arguments never happen with me. Yes, he's a tough kid. And yes, I too have lost my patience with him. But usually it ends with me punishing him by taking away his privileges, sending (or taking him) to his room and making him stay there until he's calm or by giving in. (not sure who's the better parent here...)

But mostly, I've learned over time that when he loses it, the thing that works the best is to hug him and show him I'm on his side and I can help him figure it out. Then we work through it and avoid a whole crazy fight.

But dh refuses to do that. He says why should he give any affection to a kid who says "F...ing dad"? (btw, we've never used that word, and neither have his siblings...

I have no idea what to do... DH hates therapists. Every time I take DS to one he says they're wasting our money and they don't work.

A few years ago, dh found a family counselor he said he had heard speaking and he liked, so we went to see him but Dh didn't want to do any of the stuff the guy suggested... (quality time with ds 3x a week, reading 2 books, removing himself from the arguments and letting me handle them, etc)

I can't even take sides! Obviously I am on DH's side because that's how it should be... But what if being on Dh's side is to my child's detriment?? and vice versa??? And why do I have to pick????

So if anyone has any advice for me, please, I'm all ears!!!

pause

Sun, Oct 09 2016, 2:44 am

Quote:

I can't even take sides! Obviously I am on DH's side because that's how it should be... But what if being on Dh's side is to my child's detriment?? and vice versa??? And why do I have to pick????

Obviously? Why is it obvious? That's how it should be? When your DH is yelling at your DS, you need to be on his side? Your DH is definitely wrong. You should both be on the same page regarding how to discipline your kids, but if one parent is damaging the kid/s, you need to rescue the child.

When DH explodes at DS, it's time for you to step in. Discuss with DH in advance that you will not allow this to continue. He obviously keeps riling up your DS and he's dealing with him in the wrong way, pushing him farther away from him. If he doesn't want to go for help or take parenting classes to learn how to communicate and deal with your DS, you will not let the current form of communication continue. It's damaging to all of you including the other kids who see you ignoring a scary situation. Singing to drown out a fight between a parent and child??? Really? That is beyond ridiculous! Whom are you trying to kid here?

You need to calmly announce: Time-out and have them each go into separate rooms. Or, firmly tell your DH "Please stop yelling." Or physically, put your hands onto your DH and lead him out of the room. Get the fight to stop immediately.

imasinger

Sun, Oct 09 2016, 6:37 am

ITA with Pause.

Why should you support DH in bad parenting? He needs to read those books and follow that advice. He needs to realize that getting into a power struggle with a kid is a bad idea and should only be done when necessary.

And you need to realize that running away with the rest of the family is not going to help either one of them, or the other kids. This may result in tragedy, come teen years.

My advice of how to implement pause's wise suggestion. Choose a calm time. Tell DH the last fight has been weighing on your mind at this time of year, and you are terrified of what this new year will bring unless both parties change.

Tell him that he is the adult here, and, no matter what the provocation, you can't let him get into fights with DS. Therefore, if you see a situation starting, you are going to insist that DH and DS go to separate rooms, and not interact till they have calmed down. Personally, I would also tell him that if he doesn't cooperate, you insist that he go back to that family counselor, read the books, and practice the skills. To refuse to do so at this point is so destructive that it's worth making a stand.

Then, separately tell DS that you are very worried about the situation, and you are no longer going to leave him and his father alone in a fight, but insist that each goes to a separate room to cool down. And that you will award him points for being respectful and listening right away, to you or to DH. And that in a case where there is a separation into rooms, he is still required to do what his father directed, as soon as he can.

Hopefully, the other kids will benefit by knowing that both their parents can keep them safe, and stay in control. Even if they see a bit more of the conflict.

amother

Crimson

Sun, Oct 09 2016, 8:55 am

Op, while everyone gave great advice, I can tell you that's its "easier said than done"! You will probably have a hard time getting your dh to listen to you as obviously so far, he has refused the therapist s suggestions and has disagreed with your suggestions. Your dh is set in his ways and thinks he's handling your ds okay. Especially during the moment of the fight, will your dh listen to you? He definitely needs to calm down and realize he's the adult, but obviously your dh I taking this personally and gets personally insulted by your ds which makes dh more angry.

. it seems you have a good relationship with your ds. So, is there anyway to get your ds to go with you to the "other side of the house" when the fight gets "crazy" and then say to dh: " when you calm down, we will have to discuss this".

This is a very difficult situation because your dh has to learn to be more calm and patient with him. But, this son makes your dh more angry instead. Which is why I'm suggesting that you remove your son from the situation showing your dh that he must calm down and STOPPING THE FIGHT!

. at the same time, while you are correct that your dh must change his way of parenting this child, do you think your ds should listen to the requests of your dh?? You said your dh asks him to set table or daven etc. If you think some of these requests are reasonable, can you explain to your ds when he's calm, that you expect him to listen to your dh such that when dh makes a request, you encourage your son to do it (you said he listens to you) to show support for your dh.

I do think you need to take your ds side during a fight as your dh is the adult. However, do you expect your ds to listen to anything your dh says??? Or, do you let this son do whatever he wants because he has these issues???you did write that you don't have this problem because you punish ds and have a relationship with him etc. Can you use that relationship to inform your ds that you expect him to listen to dh Before it becomes big fight???
. example: "dh says please daven" so ds says" no..." Can you right away tell ds that if he doesn't Daven he will be punished and you hug him and tell him that you understand its hard (or bribe him).. To try to get him to lists before this turns into big fight????or do you think dh should not ask him that???

I hope you can find a way to make peace, but its easy to tell your dh he has to calm down and be understanding,but your dh disagrees with you which is why I suggest you remove ds from the situation if it gets crazy and try to support dh and get your son to listen to dh at the beginning to avoid the craziness.

Hatzlacha

amother

Linen

Sun, Oct 09 2016, 9:16 am

What crimson says is a lot of how I manage the situation. If I do it enough, it validates dh for making the request, and he sees that ds ultimately listens, and he tends to calm down with ds in general, so bli ayin hara I have seen a lot of success with the relationship. It is just a lot of pressure to always have to be on and there. But it does work, OP. A variation is to anticipate dh's demand/request and make it before he does, in your own way.

The other added perspective I have gained is that the apple often doesn't fall far from the tree. Even dh has acknowledged that he likely has some form of ADD as well. Though I don't know how much insight he has into his moods. I got him to this understanding by leaving articles about adult ADD open on the computer for him to happen upon. And no, he won't take meds, because he is afraid of side effects like ds has. And I have to agree in some ways that if dh had ds's rebound effects, it would be very scary and unmanageable, even for a week or two.

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Oct 09 2016, 9:27 am

While we didn't have as severe, I found that supporting my dh in these times and stepping and and taking over worked to deescalate the situation.When dh would yell, "that's disrespectful!" I would step in and say, ,"yes, moishale, that was very disrespectful to daddy!" Just agreeing with dh would help abate his anger. And I wouldn't run away with other kiddies, I would physically step between them and walk over to "moishala" and rub his shoulder and say, "what you told daddy was very disrespectful. I want you to explain to me why you are getting so frustrated right now." Your dh might yell about his side, that's fine. As long as you get your kid to talk, get your hug in, send him to his room to calm down, and move on with life. You don't want these fights escalating. You don't want to appear as if you are on a different page than your husband. You want your son to know that both of you love him deeply. You want your son to know that his actions are unacceptable.