Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Rosh Hashana-Yom Kippur
Does davening help? Really?



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother
Bronze


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 8:36 am
I don't want this post to sound like apikarsos because I believe in hashem 100%. I always have the same question every year at this time and sitting in shul hearing people davening and crying I couldn't help but wonder about it again. Does hashem answer the tifilos of the people davening more so than the people who stayed home and were mechalel yomtov driving around eating traif? We asked hashem for health, parnassa, shidduchim and other "essentials". If we look back a year ago and compare the people who davened with kavana against the people who didn't, will either group be better off? I don't think so. The rav in my shul said a drasha before shofar. Without getting into the whole speech he basically said we have to make ourselves important and necessary so that hashem sees we are needed and grants us life. We become needed by helping people and doing chessed. Again, did the people who did chessed have more prosperity than those that didn't? Did hashem spare them from tragedy? It seems to me that hashem runs the world and he has a plan that we don't understand and ultimately there seems to be very little correlation between davening and doing chessed and having our specific tefilos answered. Am I wrong?
Back to top

amother
Tangerine


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 8:40 am
Honestly, I feel like you.

The people in my life with the most tzaros, are the nicest sweetest people who do the most chesed.
Back to top

chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 8:49 am
amother wrote:
... It seems to me that hashem runs the world and he has a plan that we don't understand and ultimately there seems to be very little correlation between davening and doing chessed and having our specific tefilos answered. Am I wrong?


The bolded is wise and true.

Davening gives me peace. Chessed makes me a good person. And I think, it's common sense to ask the G-d who runs the world for specific tefilos. eta - That's why I do those things. Not because I'm guaranteed anything. I've learned that there are no guarantees, especially regarding the promises made in the name of religion.
Back to top

imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 9:05 am
amother wrote:
Honestly, I feel like you.

The people in my life with the most tzaros, are the nicest sweetest people who do the most chesed.


Is it possible that they are the nicest people because they have used their tzaros to grow?

Lehitpallel is a reflexive verb. We talk to Hashem, but it's benefiting us. Not because our requests are sure to be granted, but because we can renew our connection to the One who knows what is best for us, even though it might be painful.

The tears I want to cry are not the "gimme" tears, but the tears of realizing who I need to be, and begging for help in becoming that person.
Back to top

amother
Cobalt


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 9:12 am
Why would HASHEM ask Moshe Rabenu to stop davening if tefillot would not make a difference?
Back to top

amother
Cobalt


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 9:25 am
imasinger wrote:
The tears I want to cry are not the "gimme" tears, but the tears of realizing who I need to be, and begging for help in becoming that person.


Sometimes they are the "gimme" tears. Sometimes they are "I'm sorry tears". Sometimes "I'm hurting" tears. Sometimes "I'm mad at myself" tears and Sometimes "I'm mad at YOU tears"

I'm being honest here.

But even if I'm at that last point. I try to have a heart to heart with HIM.

My downest time is when I can't speak, I turn mute. I shut Hashem out of my life, even though I know Hashem doesn't shut me out.

I'm not proud of it, but I do know Hashem is always there waiting for me, patiently. Knowing that HE loves me, no matter what, always brings me back home.
Back to top

amother
Pearl


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 9:30 am
first thing that comes to mind when reading your OP is: who knows what their year would've been like had they not davened?
Back to top

amother
Burlywood


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 9:46 am
Our tfillos are always heard and all the Mitzvos and Chesed one does makes him a better and accomplished person. No one was ever sorry when they got older for keeping Mitzvos. It always seems like people that are lax are living it up - the end of the day Hashem hears our heartfelt tfillos and our sees our deeds and the rewards are forthcoming
Back to top

5mom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 9:57 am
OP, you're asking the age old question. We don't know, we just trust in Hashem. You're right that objectively, religious Jews don't look like they are necessarily better off than others, for all our davening. And yet, this is what we do. We put our faith in Hashem.
Back to top

miami85




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 11:22 am
amother wrote:
It seems to me that hashem runs the world and he has a plan that we don't understand and ultimately there seems to be very little correlation between davening and doing chessed and having our specific tefilos answered. Am I wrong?


In a nutshell I believe that you answered your own question. I recommend Ms. Chevi Garfinkel's shiur on Torah Anytime for Rosh Hashana this year.

In sum, yes, davening doesn't "get us what we want", we are showing Hashem that we are "On his team/pitcrew" and that we need the proper tools to serve Him. He decides if that's a "wrench or a screwdriver", b/c there's a plan and we are merely pawns in the grand chess pieces in life.
Back to top

amother
Burlywood


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 12:32 pm
You don't give Hashem orders we get close to him by davening keeping and learning the Torah. It doesn't work we did something good the next minute a reward we did an aveira the next minute punishment - Schar Mitzva Mitzva
Back to top

gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 1:16 pm
One thing that is true is that davening helps YOU. It helps you feel at peace, gives you hope, makes you feel a connection to something bigger than you.
Back to top

amother
Bronze


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 4:21 pm
gp2.0 wrote:
One thing that is true is that davening helps YOU. It helps you feel at peace, gives you hope, makes you feel a connection to something bigger than you.



I guess what I'm really asking is does davening help towards a specific thing that we are asking for? Are the people davening finding shidduchem more than the people not davening? Do the people who daven get sick less than those that don't daven? Basically is there any correlation between our specific requests and what hashem gives us?
Back to top

BasMelech120




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 4:30 pm
Personally, I have seen answers to many tfillos that I have made to Hashem. Not only during the Yomim No'raim, but throughout the year as well. I have a 'tfilla list' with many things that I want from Hashem and I ask him in my natural language for whatever it is that I want/need/is going on/I'm going through. It gives me a sense of serenity.

I think that a good idea for your dilemma might be to actually converse with G-d about the feelings you are having. After all, He is the one who knows your heart better than anyone else. And while saying all of this, you can let your heart dictate what you say next, what you need and want for the coming year, and how you'd like to feel in a year from now. Talking to Hashem has never steered me wrong so I'm thinking the same might work for you Smile

G'mar Chasima Tova!...
Back to top

5mom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 4:40 pm
amother wrote:
I guess what I'm really asking is does davening help towards a specific thing that we are asking for? Are the people davening finding shidduchem more than the people not davening? Do the people who daven get sick less than those that don't daven? Basically is there any correlation between our specific requests and what hashem gives us?


Look around. There doesn't seem to be any correlation at all between davening and having an objectively good life. But those who feel that they have some sense of purpose in this world are better able to cope with adversity.

I remember reading a study that showed that people who belonged to a religious community tended to be healthier than those who didn't. However, it made no difference if they were members of an established religion or if they belonged to a crystal worshipping New Age group. Also, belonging to a bowling league conferred the same benefits. It seems that social connection is beneficial, and a religious community is just one way of achieving a sense of belonging.

Knowing that, I still go to shul. Because Hashem is our Creator.
Back to top

gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 5:08 pm
amother wrote:
I guess what I'm really asking is does davening help towards a specific thing that we are asking for? Are the people davening finding shidduchem more than the people not davening? Do the people who daven get sick less than those that don't daven? Basically is there any correlation between our specific requests and what hashem gives us?


To some extent, yes. Within reason. Praying for specific things gives you access to those things. Can it prevent you from getting sick? Possibly. Can it heal you once you're sick? Probably not. Can it get you a promotion at work? Possibly. Can it get you back the job you were fired from? Probably not.

You might enjoy reading the book "The Secret" which explains the idea that visualizing and expressing what you want will help you get it - as long as you think positive.

Here's an article going into more depth on how this works http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5562104

Basically, praying (or the secret) has your subconscious working behind the scenes to get you what you want in addition to you actively (consciously) trying to get it.

Reinforcement is also a powerful thing. If you find a $10 bill in your jacket from last winter you'll just be "oh yay that's nice." But if you're scrambling for $10 to pay the cleaning lady and you're like "Hashem please help me find a way to pay her right now" and THEN you find the $10 bill...

Delving into the psychology behind prayer is really going down the rabbit hole.
Back to top

amother
Slategray


 

Post Fri, Oct 07 2016, 11:28 am
I've been having the same question lately. I didn't bother davening on Rosh Hashana. I'm tired of being told "no" of being ignored or of being told it's for my own good. frankly, I'm too angry to daven.
God is all powerful and all knowing so he knows what I need I dont understand why he designed us to require futile begging in order to feel good about ourselves.
Back to top

busymom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 07 2016, 11:46 am
imasinger wrote:
Is it possible that they are the nicest people because they have used their tzaros to grow?

Lehitpallel is a reflexive verb. We talk to Hashem, but it's benefiting us. Not because our requests are sure to be granted, but because we can renew our connection to the One who knows what is best for us, even though it might be painful.

The tears I want to cry are not the "gimme" tears, but the tears of realizing who I need to be, and begging for help in becoming that person.

This. I love everything she said.

I don't cry and beg when I daven on R"H. I try to be cognizant of the fact that I am "mamlich" Hashem, the main mitzvah of the day, and that I want to serve Him and stay connected 24/7.

I also believe, as the op stated, that much is pre-destined, as far as the struggles we will face and the kind of life we will have. That's why I think, as imasinger so beautifully explained, that davening should be a connection and conversation that benefits us and helps us grow. You know those kind of struggles we have that reappear in a million different ways in our life, all pointing to the same required growth? I try to tell Hashem that I think I've made progress in that area, I've really tried, so can we let such tests go already? And if more growth is required, can He please direct me and help me? And I'm not sure always where I should put all my energies and how I should deal with some parenting issues, so can He please guide me in those areas too? And if He blesses me with money, I have so many good intentions and will use them in good ways...
It's a mixture of requests, reflection on past and future growth, and a conscious desire for connection and guidance. And if our davening helps change us on the inside, makes us think and stretch and grow, then yes, I believe it can impact our future.
Back to top

amother
Orange


 

Post Thu, Oct 13 2016, 1:15 am
I just heard a shiur that made me think of this thread.

We shouldn't view davening as simply reciting a list of needs, and maybe Hashem will give them and maybe He won't, and He also has His list of demands from us.

When we are disconnected from Hashem, when we don't feel His constant presence, we feel alone. The loneliness leads to fear (which is the root cause of sin).

But the only true thing to be afraid of in this world is being disconnected from Hashem.

In slichos we appeal to Hashem's 13 middos harachamim.

The shoresh of rachamim is rechem. Hashem takes care of us in the way a pregnant woman cares for the baby in her womb. We're surrounded by His goodness and also physically connected.

We're not two opposing parties, each with a set of demands. We're a part of Him, and everything He does is for our benefit, like a mother. (On a side note, I was happy to hear Hashem compared to a mother for once, we're so used to Him being compared to a father Very Happy

So back to the OP. The point of davening is not to simply list demands and hope they are fulfilled, but to be connected with Hashem, and remind ourselves of His constant presence and goodness.
Back to top

imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 13 2016, 6:28 am
Beautiful drasha.

Side note. If you enjoyed hearing Hashem described in female terms, try to get to shul this Shabbos for Haazinu.

It should leave your spirit soaring. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Back to top
Page 1 of 1 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Rosh Hashana-Yom Kippur

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Landau shul davening times purim
by amother
2 Fri, Mar 22 2024, 3:02 pm View last post
Some questions regarding davening toddler
by top mom
19 Tue, Jan 23 2024, 10:47 am View last post
Davening 🙈
by amother
23 Sun, Dec 17 2023, 11:16 am View last post
Women and davening in front of the candles 2 Thu, Dec 07 2023, 10:30 am View last post
Davening without understanding the words
by gorilla
4 Sun, Nov 26 2023, 6:50 pm View last post