The election is rigged!

shoshanim999

Thu, Oct 13 2016, 5:19 pm

tichellady wrote:

I don't see anyone reputable claiming that Hillary Clinton had anything to do with the release of the tapes but let's say it is true and she was involved - doesn't she have the right to choose timing that is strategic for her? Not that it really matters because the this is all hypothetical

I agree, but I have a feeling the media source that had these incriminating recordings, had them for awhile and chose the perfect time to release them where it would benefit Hillary the most. Had these tapes been released 6 months ago, it wouldn't have helped her at all as it would only have served to knock Trump out of the primary and Hillary would have a different opponent.

Miri7

Thu, Oct 13 2016, 8:02 pm

Even assuming for sake of argument that the recent tape and emails were released at strategic times by supporters of either candidate, that isn't "rigging" the election. That is taking each candidate's (or campaign) own words and using them against them. Candidates and their supporters are entitled to hold on to political ammunition until the most advantageous time.

In my mind rigging an election entails tampering with the voting process by strategically making it harder for voters to vote, or messing with the vote counts. These voter ID laws that have been ruled invalid are attempts to engage in voter suppression - which is an attempt to "legitimately" rig the election. I note that these laws have been overwhelmingly introduced and supported by Republicans despite scant evidence that there was much actual voter fraud.

We should all be concerned about Russia's attempts to influence the election by hacking the DNC and voting systems in Arizona and Illinois. Regardless of political party, that is something I think we can all agree on. While I do want my candidate to win, what I want most is a fair election where each voter is able to cast their ballot and have it counted accurately.

ally

Thu, Oct 13 2016, 8:21 pm

Miri7 wrote:

[bold]Even assuming for sake of argument that the recent tape and emails were released at strategic times by supporters of either candidate, that isn't "rigging" the election. That is taking each candidate's (or campaign) own words and using them against them. Candidates and their supporters are entitled to hold on to political ammunition until the most advantageous time. [\bold]

In my mind rigging an election entails tampering with the voting process by strategically making it harder for voters to vote, or messing with the vote counts. These voter ID laws that have been ruled invalid are attempts to engage in voter suppression - which is an attempt to "legitimately" rig the election. I note that these laws have been overwhelmingly introduced and supported by Republicans despite scant evidence that there was much actual voter fraud.

We should all be concerned about Russia's attempts to influence the election by hacking the DNC and voting systems in Arizona and Illinois. Regardless of political party, that is something I think we can all agree on. While I do want my candidate to win, what I want most is a fair election where each voter is able to cast their ballot and have it counted accurately.

I think the bolded is fair if we are talking about the political parties themselves. But I think it is a real problem if it is the media playing that game.

I am very skeptical of the Russian fear mongering.

Laiya

Thu, Oct 13 2016, 9:52 pm

Miri7 wrote:

To me, requiring photo ID hardly amounts to voter suppression.

And the republicans would say that the democrats oppose these measures because the democrats are the ones who largely stand to benefit from voter fraud, if it happens.

rfeig613

Fri, Oct 14 2016, 10:49 am

The election fraud in this country is out of control. They recorded an elections commissioner admitting that the whole elections in NYC are fraudulent, and I'm sure it's even worse elsewhere.

The media is so corrupt and biased against Republicans. Every network except for Fox, and all the newspapers, are controlled by liberal elites. Many anchors on CNN, CBS, and NBC are married to Democratic Party bosses and White House employees.

Why should we judge people based on things they did decades ago? Furthermore, there's no proof he did any of these things. These women are being paid off by the Clintons. We know that in several cases, others said the accusers were lying and in one case, the alleged victim works for the Clinton Foundation.

Trump did nothing egregious. Men talk like that all the time about women, sadly. It's him trying to show off to another guy, that's all. Bill Clinton actually did rape women.

SixOfWands

Fri, Oct 14 2016, 11:44 am

rfeig613 wrote:

The election fraud in this country is out of control. They recorded an elections commissioner admitting that the whole elections in NYC are fraudulent, and I'm sure it's even worse elsewhere.

Please provide some evidence other than the insane rantings of a Democratic Board of Elections Commissioner.

Voter fraud is another Big Lie told by Republicans who want to explain why they lose elections ... except where they win, no fraud there, of course. A recent comprehensive investigation of alleged voter fraud found that out of one billion votes cast in all American elections between 2000 and 2014, there were 31 possible cases of impersonation fraud. Other violations — like absentee ballot fraud, multiple voting and registration fraud — are also exceedingly rare.

But if you have evidence -- not just repeating that you know it happens, but hard evidence -- of voter fraud, please share it. We'd all like to hear about it.

rfeig613 wrote:

The media is so corrupt and biased against Republicans. Every network except for Fox, and all the newspapers, are controlled by liberal elites. Many anchors on CNN, CBS, and NBC are married to Democratic Party bosses and White House employees.

Some media slants left. Some media slants right. That's the way the world is. CBS, ABC, USA Today, Bloomberg and USA Today are all known to slant slightly right, while NBC, CNN and MSNBC slant slightly left. Fox and Drudge are way, way right; the NY Times, Washington Post and Huff Po are way left.

But the NY Times isn't making up facts.

Found a 2015 fact checking report on various media. At Fox and Fox News, 10 percent of the claims they rated were been True, 11 percent Mostly True, 18 percent Half True, 21 percent Mostly False, 31 percent False and nine percent Pants on Fire.

CNN had the best record. 15 percent of the claims were True, 42 percent Mostly True, 23 percent Half True, 3 percent Mostly False, 6 percent False and 2 percent Pants on Fire.

[/quote="rfeig613"]
Why should we judge people based on things they did decades ago? Furthermore, there's no proof he did any of these things. These women are being paid off by the Clintons. We know that in several cases, others said the accusers were lying and in one case, the alleged victim works for the Clinton Foundation.
[/quote]

What women are lying? How do you know? Because Trump says so? Well, he also says that he molests women, so why do you think he lied about that, but is telling the truth that he didn't molest them?

And if there were some evidence of change, I'd give him credit. But there isn't any. This is a man who mocks disabled reporters. Calls women pigs, ugly, fat, and other disgusting things. And defends the fact that he does.

rfeig613 wrote:

Trump did nothing egregious. Men talk like that all the time about women, sadly. It's him trying to show off to another guy, that's all. Bill Clinton actually did rape women.

Bill Clinton isn't running for president. But in any case, he never "raped" a woman. The woman that Trump dragged out signed a sworn statement that she wasn't raped.

Donald Trump has been accused of rape in a case that is currently pending. He's been accused of molesting multiple women. He's been open about watching teenage girls in their dressing rooms. He's talked about having an affair [in the future] with a pre-pubescent girl He's BRAGGED about molesting women.

MEN DO NOT TALK THAT WAY. At least not normal men.

SixOfWands

Fri, Oct 14 2016, 11:49 am

Laiya wrote:

The people who lack photo identification are disproportionately poor, minority, and/or elderly. And they often cannot obtain ID. Here's a story about one man, partially blind, who could not obtain a photo ID because he didn't have photo ID.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....115f8

Given the lack of evidence of voter identity fraud, why do we need these laws?

Answer -- because it keeps poor minorities without IDs, who are more likely to vote Democratic, away from the polls.

Fox

Fri, Oct 14 2016, 1:10 pm

For anyone with a serious interest in the topic of election manipulation, I highly recommend Five Dollars and a Pork Chop Sandwich: Vote Buying and the Corruption of Democracy, by Mary Frances Berry.

As recently as a decade ago, the Democratic precinct captain came around before every election to make sure that DH and I understood that voting for Democrats was the proper way to say, "thank you" for having our garbage picked up and snow removed from our streets. He asked after our children by name; asked how our business was doing . . . it was a little unnerving. If we'd been less familiar with how Chicago politics works, it would have been very intimidating.

Election corruption by Democrats in Illinois is legendary, the high point being the fraud that allowed JFK to win in 1960. The Democrats are vindicated only by the fact that the Republicans, who run DuPage County to the west of Chicago, are just as corrupt.

Fox

Fri, Oct 14 2016, 1:57 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

The people who lack photo identification are disproportionately poor, minority, and/or elderly. And they often cannot obtain ID.

So why are we concerned about this problem only in terms of elections.

Lack of photo identification is a significant problem for anyone who wants to apply for government benefits, apply for a job, or even get a library card.

The answer is not to allow people to vote without photo ID; the answer is to reach out to people who have difficulty getting proper identification for whatever reason and help them get it!

The fine folks who argue so passionately about how voter ID laws disenfranchise people don't seem to care whether those people are able to participate in other aspects of American life.

SixOfWands

Fri, Oct 14 2016, 2:13 pm

Fox wrote:

Actually, you don't need a photo ID to apply for government benefits. And I've certainly never been asked for photo ID in connection with any job application (although I was issued a photo ID for the building I work in). I'm not positive about the library, but since my kids got library cards long before they had photo ID, I'd say not.

SixOfWands

Fri, Oct 14 2016, 2:13 pm

Fox wrote:

That's a wholly different type of fraud, which has nothing to do with voter ID laws.