Conversion Crisis | Imamother

dancingqueen

Thu, Oct 13 2016, 10:44 pm

sourstix wrote:

Six of wands I want to say this as I think it's important to people who like to be educated. Modern orthodox and conservatives as well as reform practice yiddishkeit. Different then yeshivish and chasidish people.

The mo or the reform and the word reform is being used because their rabbonim are reforming Halacha and hashkafa. They want to modernize. Now I didn't make this up, this is what they have been saying from day one. That is why anyone from the rw communities look at any of their Halacha PSAK skeptically. I for sure won't be accepting their version in Halacha. And it doesn't mean I don't respect you as a mo or reform Jew. I respect you, but I don't accept your ravs psak. In matters of geirus you wouldn't want to go to a rav that has modernized because you want to make sure it's done correctly. You want to go to a rav that respects Halacha to the fullest.

I tried to say this as nice as I possibly can. I do not mean to hurt or criticize all I want to do is educate. You can do as you wish. You can disregard what I say. As this is what I believe. I did not mean to diminish any authority figures here. I was educating.

(How to say this nicely...)
It sounds like you really don't know that much about conversion, rabbanut in Israel, modern orthodoxy, rabbi Schwartz, conservative, or reform. So perhaps it would be best to get educated instead of educating others on these topics.

5mom

Fri, Oct 14 2016, 12:04 am

sourstix wrote:

I reported this post for equating Modern Orthodoxy with the Reform movement. .

We do not need to be educated by someone who has shown ignorance of everything that's being discussed.

I suppose it's possible that this poster was taught these hateful attitudes as a child and doesn't know any better. But that's not an excuse for spewing venom.

treestump

Sat, Oct 15 2016, 2:14 pm

sourstix wrote:

Are you for real? As a RW poster I am appalled and disgusted.

As far as I understand, you are chassidish. Your leaders have reformed hashkafa and halacha to possibly one of the greatest extents in Jewish history.

So, are you Reform too?

Obviously, hashkafos change with the times. If they didn't, we would be practicing polygamy and your husband would be able to tell you "We're divorced" without you being able to voice a word in protest. Oh, and you might only be able to go out to the market once a month.

Chareidi hashkafa is definitely something that has drastically changed Judaism. The kollel lifestyle was a response to the Holocaust, as the Chazon Ish said, we must replace the Torah lost due to the Holocaust. Never before in Jewish history has the concept of kollel, men learning full time on such a grand scale, been implemented.

Does that make chareidi Jews Reform too?

The MO movement is one that believes there is intrinsic value in modernity. I have friends who are MO and I deeply admire the way they practice Judaism with meaning, richness and true sincerity.

There are many legitimate gedolim within the MO movement. How dare anyone have the chutzpah to scoff at a choshuv Rav with leitzanus and disrespect because he is MO? What would your reaction be if I said the things you said about MO rabbonim, about your Rebbe, or about Rav Chaim Kanievsky or Rav Shteineman, chv?

If you don't agree with that philosophy, that is fine. If the derech is not for you, there's shivim panim laTorah. But to unapologetically compare a movement which is not compliant with halacha, to a legitimate derech in Yiddishkeit, and to knock choshuv rabbonim, not just in one thread but a few, is ignorance, gaivah and definitely NOT respecting halacha and rabbonim to the fullest as you claim you do.

amother

Bisque

Sat, Oct 15 2016, 2:48 pm

New amother here. I've been stewing over this thread for a long time, wondering whether or not to post, or to use my SN. The whole thing just breaks my heart, it's so painful.

My grandmother was a Holocaust survivor, but did not raise my mom religious. My mom married an Xian, and I was raised in that. As an adult I decided on my own that I wanted to be Jewish, and only found out the truth about my grandmother after I started studying. I didn't even know what matrilineal descent was!

I was told that I needed a gerus l'chumra, so I went to a VERY charedi beis din in Jerusalem that specializes in issues of "skipped generations". I still had to pass all the halachic tests, have many interviews of several hours each, and all the usual stuff. I had checked the rabbonim out, and was told by several sources that they were 100% kosher and accepted.

I also had a young child from a previous marriage, and the DC had to go to the mikvah with me. At that point, I thought everything was signed, dunked, and done.

A few years later I moved back to the US, to find out that the RCA does not accept our conversions - l'chumra even! We were hung out to dry, and shunned by all the Orthodox shuls in the city. There was one small Sephardic shul who accepted us, but wouldn't let us pay membership dues, because they didn't want to anger the other shuls. They just tolerated our presence, and pitied us.

Eventually I remarried, and wanted to move back to Israel. For some reason, the Jewish Agency accepted my conversion, but not DC's. They refused to accept DC as being Jewish, so DC had to come in on a 5 year visa. DC doesn't know, and would be traumatized to find out. We are lucky that the schools don't ask for conversion paperwork.

We have some time to deal with the problem because DC is still young, but eventually we are going to have to tangle with the Jewish Agency, the rabbanut, the Israeli courts, and all the bureaucracy that goes with it.

WE JUST WANT TO LIVE NORMAL LIVES! I wish I understood why Hashem is testing us this way. It seems so incredibly unfair. Crying

grace413

Sat, Oct 15 2016, 3:17 pm

treestump wrote:

Are you for real? As a RW poster I am appalled and disgusted.

Obviously, hashkafos change with the times. If they didn't, we would be practicing polygamy and your husband would be able to tell you "We're divorced" without you being able to voice a word in protest. Oh, and you might only be able to go out to the market once a month.

Chareidi hashkafa is definitely something that has drastically changed Judaism. The kollel lifestyle was a response to the Holocaust, as the Chazon Ish said, we must replace the Torah lost due to the Holocaust. Never before in Jewish history has the concept of kollel, men learning full time on such a grand scale, been implemented.

Does that make chareidi Jews Reform too?

The MO movement is one that believes there is intrinsic value in modernity. I have friends who are MO and I deeply admire the way they practice Judaism with meaning, richness and true sincerity.

There are many legitimate gedolim within the MO movement. How dare anyone have the chutzpah to scoff at a choshuv Rav with leitzanus and disrespect because he is MO? What would your reaction be if I said the things you said about MO rabbonim, about your Rebbe, or about Rav Chaim Kanievsky or Rav Shteineman, chv?

If you don't agree with that philosophy, that is fine. If the derech is not for you, there's shivim panim laTorah. But to unapologetically compare a movement which is not compliant with halacha, to a legitimate derech in Yiddishkeit, and to knock choshuv rabbonim, not just in one thread but a few, is ignorance, gaivah and definitely NOT respecting halacha and rabbonim to the fullest as you claim you do.

Treestump, well said. Happy to see a RW person posting this.