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What would you do if this happened at your house?
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 4:11 pm
amother wrote:
......

After I cooked and cooled off, the salmon I made for Rosh Hashana, I found a dead fly floating in the water. There had been a fly buzzing around my kitchen, and it was gone, so I was pretty sure it was the same fly. I don't know if it got cooked with it or flew in after, but I took it out, and served the salmon....


See the halacha actually deals with this. Twice.

Kashrut:- the fly has a taam Ra (bad taste), so the food is not treifed up I.e. you should eat it

Shabbat:- if a fly falls in your drink then you take out a little of the drink with the fly, so as not to be removing bad from the good, (fly from drink) but good from good (drink from drink). Remember ochel mhatochein byad myad?

I remember when we learnt this the Rav (or a student) posed the question - why not just throw out the whole drink? And he answered: Apart from the Baal tashit problem, the halacha here and elsewhere is trying to teach us to train ourselves not to be so sensitive to your types of gashmiyus things, but to be more easy going about it, in order to be more sensitive to spiritual issues.

So by that logic I guess the correct thing to do would just be to serve it. Of course it's very easy to say this when I've had 24 hours to back and forth with myself about a purely theoretical question (for me). And truly not judging you op, because as someone above already said , in the heat of the moment and YT stress yeah, I too probably would have lost my cool.....
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amother
Lilac


 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 5:53 pm
MrsDash wrote:
"You double dipped the chip!"


That's like putting your whole mouth right in the dip! From now on, when you take a chip, just take one dip and end it!

ROFL! LOL

I'm a Seinfeld junkie.
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iluvy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 8:00 pm
If I can't see anything different about it through close visual examination, and the toddler doesn't have something contagious, and no one has a compromised immune system, it didn't happen.

Posting under my screenname so you are warned if you come to me for Shabbos!
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Seas




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 8:31 pm
Reading about this brings up memories of my grandmother who used to say (in her younger years) when someone was averse to using/eating something that had been sampled by another:
קיין איוואן האט פון דעם נישט געגעסן - no Ivan (I.e. [non jew]) ate from this.

In other words, it's only been touched by another Yid, so don't show such aversion.

(I actually try to make a point of doing this, in order to work on my ahavas Yisroel. For example at a vort I'll purposefully drink from a used cup, even though I'm quite bothered by these kind of things, just to train myself not to be disgusted by another Yid.)
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 8:32 pm
Seas wrote:
Reading about this brings up memories of my grandmother who used to say (in her younger years) when someone was averse to using/eating something that had been sampled by another:
קיין איוואן האט פון דעם נישט געגעסן - no Ivan (I.e. [non jew]) ate from this.

In other words, it's only been touched by another Yid, so don't show such aversion.


What the *****?
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treestump




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 8:53 pm
Seas wrote:
Reading about this brings up memories of my grandmother who used to say (in her younger years) when someone was averse to using/eating something that had been sampled by another:
קיין איוואן האט פון דעם נישט געגעסן - no Ivan (I.e. [non jew]) ate from this.

In other words, it's only been touched by another Yid, so don't show such aversion.

(I actually try to make a point of doing this, in order to work on my ahavas Yisroel. For example at a vort I'll purposefully drink from a used cup, even though I'm quite bothered by these kind of things, just to train myself not to be disgusted by another Yid.)


That is quite a distasteful and offensive joke, I must say... (I am being dlkz that you were kidding, but some things are not meant to be joked about...)
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Seas




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 9:28 pm
I seriously have no idea what the above two posters are finding hard to understand about it. Ideally a Yid should never feel any kind of aversion or disgust from another Yid (same as you wouldn't feel it from your own children).

That is not to say that I am already on that level, but that is what I was taught by my grandmother. I'd like to think that I've internalized her message at least to some degree.
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 9:32 pm
I would have reheated, but had that not been possible, I'm not sure...
I have been known to throw.
My mother sat and checked a bunch of lettuce with the help of my younger child... they were so proud of themselves, until I reminded her that he had just been treated for pinworm ...YUCK!
If I could have cooked the lettuce I would have, and I felt terrible throwing out all the painstakingly checked lettuce, but better that than pinworm!! My mother didn't protest, I think she was completely grossed out!
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yogabird




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 9:38 pm
Seas, where did you get that from? Body fluids are just considered universally disgusting, even (especially) in Halacha, as far back as the gemarah.
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yogabird




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 9:41 pm
Not saying toddler spit is that yuck, I think it depends a lot on upbringing and somewhat on culture, and personally, to me, on how well groomed said toddler is, but there's nothing unjewish about being disgusted by it.
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animeme




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 10:00 pm
I think the Ivan thing, generationally, is more about the odds that an "ivan" was more likely to actually want to hurt you. And possibly an accurate or inaccurate understanding that the average Jew was cleaner than the average ivan.

I probably would have put them in the oven for awhile with the liquid. I also assume in my house that anything on the table is liable to get touched, pulled off, or have something dropped on it (my table is right in the middle of the room). Too many years of curious careless kids has me putting things on the counters or away.
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Seas




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 10:04 pm
yogabird wrote:
Seas, where did you get that from? Body fluids are just considered universally disgusting, even (especially) in Halacha, as far back as the gemarah.


True that, but the fact is most people aren't grossed out by those whom they love. Does sharing a spoon/dish with your husband gross you out? How about with your child?

There are many stories of tzaddikim who worked hard to attain that level of love to every single Yid. I think that by chassidim in general they used to share cutlery etc. because of this concept of ahavas Yisroel.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 10:10 pm
I'm not a germaphobe, and I would have totally recooked the pears in the over and served them. (Fair warning if you come to my house!) I also use the same spoon when I'm adjusting the seasonings in soup, and "double dip" if I need to taste more than once.

In defense of Seas, I remember Rebbetzin Jungreis once saying that the "Ivans" were always shocked at how often Jews wash their hands, because they had been raised to believe that "all Jews were filthy".
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animeme




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 10:26 pm
Seas wrote:
True that, but the fact is most people aren't grossed out by those whom they love. Does sharing a spoon/dish with your husband gross you out? How about with your child?

There are many stories of tzaddikim who worked hard to attain that level of love to every single Yid. I think that by chassidim in general they used to share cutlery etc. because of this concept of ahavas Yisroel.


I'm not grossed out by eating from my kids' food. But I have learned the hard way that almost every time I do it I get sick.
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amother
Brown


 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 10:31 pm
animeme wrote:
I'm not grossed out by eating from my kids' food. But I have learned the hard way that almost every time I do it I get sick.


Yes

It's because they have already contracted the germ but did not yet begin to show symptoms.

For that reason, I try to insist on my kids not sharing germs amongst each other, either.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 11:13 pm
Gross and unsanitary are not necessarily the same things. There are things that people consider gross that are in fact perfectly safe, and there are things that people are comfortable with that are actually not cool.
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bluebaker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 11:28 pm
sequoia wrote:
I can't imagine caring. Such disgusting things surround us - mold, paint, cleaning products, car fumes. What's the big deal about a little kid's saliva? He's not some convict with TB.


Except if he/she's got a virus and there's someone with an immune compromised system. Then you've got a big deal.
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amother
Lilac


 

Post Wed, Oct 19 2016, 11:51 pm
Seas wrote:


(I actually try to make a point of doing this, in order to work on my ahavas Yisroel. For example at a vort I'll purposefully drink from a used cup, even though I'm quite bothered by these kind of things, just to train myself not to be disgusted by another Yid.)


I really don't know what to make of this statement. I think the intention is beautiful but maybe misplaced? I mean, if something is gross, pretending it isn't doesn't make it less gross. More importantly is I think the idea of ahavas yisroel is to look beyond the gross - to really love the person for their holy neshama no matter what is on the outside - not to love their germs or seek them out.
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Seas




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 20 2016, 8:33 am
amother wrote:
I really don't know what to make of this statement. I think the intention is beautiful but maybe misplaced? I mean, if something is gross, pretending it isn't doesn't make it less gross. More importantly is I think the idea of ahavas yisroel is to look beyond the gross - to really love the person for their holy neshama no matter what is on the outside - not to love their germs or seek them out.


But that's the thing, if you truly love someone you aren't grossed out by them. Case in point your husband and children. When someone loves all other Yidden like one should, they would never be grossed out by another Yid.

As stated, I'm not on that level yet, but it's the ideal to which I strive.
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cnc




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 20 2016, 8:59 am
Seas wrote:
Reading about this brings up memories of my grandmother who used to say (in her younger years) when someone was averse to using/eating something that had been sampled by another:
קיין איוואן האט פון דעם נישט געגעסן - no Ivan (I.e. [non jew]) ate from this.

In other words, it's only been touched by another Yid, so don't show such aversion.

(I actually try to make a point of doing this, in order to work on my ahavas Yisroel. For example at a vort I'll purposefully drink from a used cup, even though I'm quite bothered by these kind of things, just to train myself not to be disgusted by another Yid.)


Um say what?
Are you serious?
What if that person has a cold or the flu or strep or a canker sore?
If you really want to work on your Ahavas Yisroel there are plenty of other places to start...
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