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Therapy question for 15 year old boy
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Sun, Oct 23 2016, 10:20 am
We've spent many thousands of $$$ on therapy for my 15 yr old son with little results. I think I know why and I'd like to hear some feedback. Basically my son is 15 going on 9. He acts like a 8-10 yr old in every way imaginable.
Academics are a disaster.
He has no shame sucking lolly pops in shul.
He fights with his siblings over things like "she's looking at me".
He fights with his siblings on which chair he wants to sit in at the table.
He has no problem going outside with dirty clothing or a dirty face.
He can't hold a conversation that is age appropriate and therefore has no friends.
A hundred other examples.

It's pretty clear that his mind is like a 9 year old. In the same way I couldn't take a 9 yr old to a therapist and say, make him think, act, and behave like a 15 yr old, I cant take my 15 yr old whose mind is like a 9 yr old and have it changed. I'm reluctant to continue throwing money down the drain. Am I making sense?
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sourstix




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 23 2016, 10:32 am
You labeled him as immature. That is not good for any of you. Take him for a neuropsychological eval. They do a full assessment. U might be surprised what you find out. The shame thing is possibly a personality thing. You can't change that. It takes males to mature a lot longer then Others. He might have social and sensory issues. But first have him evaluated so you know which route to go.
Don't criticize him it makes his self esteem much worse and it will just intensify. Don't comment on his appearance. Just tell him to go wash himself.
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cnc




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 23 2016, 10:34 am
sourstix wrote:
You labeled him as immature. That is not good for any of you. Take him for a neuropsychological eval. They do a full assessment. U might be surprised what you find out. The shame thing is possibly a personality thing. You can't change that. It takes males to mature a lot longer then Others. He might have social and sensory issues. But first have him evaluated so you know which route to go.
Don't criticize him it makes his self esteem much worse and it will just intensify. Don't comment on his appearance. Just tell him to go wash himself.


I agree with a neuropsychological evaluation or a developmental pediatrician.
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amother
Lilac


 

Post Sun, Oct 23 2016, 11:13 am
Another vote for a neuropsychologist evaluation. This isn't just a bout of immaturity that talking to a therapist can get him through. Something is very off, could be autism spectrum or something cognitively off. Also, you need to change your attitude regarding the purpose of therapy. It is not so you can fix or cure. He likely has something that will never go away, so you need to start thinking about getting him help with the goal of learning to make the best of what he's got so he can live a normal life.
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Sun, Oct 23 2016, 1:05 pm
Op here. Thanks for the responses. I guess I'm concerned that we will take him for an evaluation, pay thousands of dollars, and have the report tell us everything we already know. He's on the spectrum, he's delayed in this and that....and then what? The problem is that it is vert easy to diagnose but very difficult to fix. I do believe people go to therapy to "fix" problems. Whether it's low self esteem, social anxiety, anger or something else, people go to therapists with the intention of, if not fixing, at least improving their situation. I have serious doubts if my sons problems are fixable. If its not fixable, I don't need a diagnosis. I see clearly where he's holding.
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Sun, Oct 23 2016, 1:41 pm
I agree with everyone else that a full eval cant hurt. I also hear u that you clearly see where he's holding. However, it is probably causing him a lot of pain that he is 'different' from his peers. Personally if I were u I'd look into finding cheap or free therapy - its definitely not the best, but still doing something...
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sourstix




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 23 2016, 1:49 pm
Ok so I just have a small question op. If he's on the spectrum , why are you not understanding that this is who he is. No I don't know how much therapy will help. You obviously had whim evaluated because you say he is on the spectrum.

And anyway, what does "on the spectrum" really mean? Again I am just trying to understand.

I will edit my post here,because I googled spectrum. Ok, I sound naive, maybe now I understand what you mean now. So he has a form of autism. Is that what you mean op? Then doesn't that all make sense to you?

The reason I am asking because it looks like your frustrated even though you know your son has these issues. Yes he needs a full eval. And he needs help. I think your not realizing how that would help you and him.
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Sun, Oct 23 2016, 2:36 pm
sourstix wrote:
Ok so I just have a small question op. If he's on the spectrum , why are you not understanding that this is who he is. No I don't know how much therapy will help. You obviously had whim evaluated because you say he is on the spectrum.

And anyway, what does "on the spectrum" really mean? Again I am just trying to understand.

I will edit my post here,because I googled spectrum. Ok, I sound naive, maybe now I understand what you mean now. So he has a form of autism. Is that what you mean op? Then doesn't that all make sense to you?

The reason I am asking because it looks like your frustrated even though you know your son has these issues. Yes he needs a full eval. And he needs help. I think your not realizing how that would help you and him.



Yes, he was diagnosed a few yrs ago and is on the autistic spectrum. This was around 5 years ago. Now as a teen his issues are more noticeable. His psychiatrist is recommending a therapist to help him with "executive function" which is a fancy term for life skills. The problem is that he has so many issues and he's just so behind that I don't see how it will do any good. For the record we had various therapists in the past and it didn't help at all.
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Sun, Oct 23 2016, 2:49 pm
amother wrote:
Yes, he was diagnosed a few yrs ago and is on the autistic spectrum. This was around 5 years ago. Now as a teen his issues are more noticeable. His psychiatrist is recommending a therapist to help him with "executive function" which is a fancy term for life skills. The problem is that he has so many issues and he's just so behind that I don't see how it will do any good. For the record we had various therapists in the past and it didn't help at all.


Try low cost clinics in your area. Graduate schools have them- students do the therapy but are supervised and guided. Executive function includes complex thinking, problem solving and other cognitive processes than just life skills... All necessary.
He needs help as you say... How do you know he wouldn't have gotten this far without the help he's gotten thus far?

And why is he seeing a psychiatrist?
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Sun, Oct 23 2016, 3:05 pm
amother wrote:
Try low cost clinics in your area. Graduate schools have them- students do the therapy but are supervised and guided. Executive function includes complex thinking, problem solving and other cognitive processes than just life skills... All necessary.
He needs help as you say... How do you know he wouldn't have gotten this far without the help he's gotten thus far?

And why is he seeing a psychiatrist?


He's seeing a psychiatrist for anxiety. I don't think the therapy has helped at all because there is virtually not a single thing that his mind doesn't think like a 10 yr old. He doesn't wear a coat in the winter unless I remind him. He will eat a bowl of chulent while walking in the street to shul. These types of behaviours aren't taught not to do. At some point in a child's life they just grow out of it.
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amother
Cerulean


 

Post Sun, Oct 23 2016, 3:07 pm
Please put in the time and effort now if not you will have a twenty five year old who still acts like a nine year old
Please I have a young adult child who is still a child. While they finished school they still need to be told to bathe to clean to complete any tasks. My adult child should be married and working and is still a child.
I did not go to therapy as I felt my child is just immature and will take a bit longer to mature. I am kicking myself that I never forced the issue then. And I am spending so much money now on therapy anyways !
Wishing you all the best for a gut yunfit and May Hashem give you the strength to get thru this.
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12rivkyk34




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 23 2016, 4:09 pm
You can't know what inroads the therapy has made in his overall processing skills, expressive language skills etc maybe he'd be even less functional without the therapy you've invested in. Am important point is to speak to his social skills /speech therapist about the lack of awareness he is exhibiting in this specific area of social skill's and have them target that. It's so important to communicate with the therapist what areas concern you the most so she can target thode areas. Good luck as it's not easy or cheap but targeted therapy does have long term results.
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bluebaker




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 24 2016, 12:19 pm
What were the so-called diagnoses from the therapists?
Was delayed development mentioned?

What does he excel in? Is there anything he likes to do that is acceptable in your eyes?


amother wrote:
We've spent many thousands of $$$ on therapy for my 15 yr old son with little results. I think I know why and I'd like to hear some feedback. Basically my son is 15 going on 9. He acts like a 8-10 yr old in every way imaginable.
Academics are a disaster.
He has no shame sucking lolly pops in shul.
He fights with his siblings over things like "she's looking at me".
He fights with his siblings on which chair he wants to sit in at the table.
He has no problem going outside with dirty clothing or a dirty face.
He can't hold a conversation that is age appropriate and therefore has no friends.
A hundred other examples.

It's pretty clear that his mind is like a 9 year old. In the same way I couldn't take a 9 yr old to a therapist and say, make him think, act, and behave like a 15 yr old, I cant take my 15 yr old whose mind is like a 9 yr old and have it changed. I'm reluctant to continue throwing money down the drain. Am I making sense?
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bluebaker




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 24 2016, 12:23 pm
Have you gone the nutritional route with him?

http://wholenewmom.com/health-.....ling/

Karen Thomas - she knows her stuff - get acquainted with what she does. I have a feeling she could help your son - http://naturallyhealingautism.com/
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amother
Tan


 

Post Mon, Oct 24 2016, 2:11 pm
It sounds like you want to give up on your son (obviously out of frustration and not because you don't care). Please don't give up your son! I know you feel like you've run out of options, but there is always something else to do. Also, It sounds like he has some issues and he may never reach the potential of the average child, but that doesn't mean he can't reach his own full potential. Maybe his own potential is that of a 12 year old or a 15 year old, and he could get there? It would certainly be better than having him be stuck at age 9. And yes, it may take time and money and effort, but that's what we sometimes have to do for our children and there's no way to get around it. But I'm sure your son is worth it. Will you want to look back in 5 or 10 or 15 or 25 years and wonder if your son could have been better if you'd just invested more time/money/effort into him?

A few suggestions:
- It sounds like you should sit down with the psychiatrist or psychologist or whoever he is seeing and discuss his progress / maintenance. Some people need some sort of therapy to maintain them where they are, which may not seem as amazing as fixing a problem, but is much better than getting worse. But there may be minimal progress which you don't see, but the therapist does. Or maybe there isn't/ You may have to weight switching him to someone else.
- Get a full workup. Maybe a developmental neurologist? The other suggestions here sounded good too. 5 years is a really,really long time to go without an evaluation. I had evaluations every 3 years just for ADHD and some mild learning disabilities, and this was in the 90s. And they still missed a major developmental issue with me which I only had diagnosed at age 30 (ironically, by a developmental pediatric neurologist I brought my toddler to for her issues), and they maybe would have caught sooner if I had just been brought to the right person all those years ago. These evaluations should probably be done once a year if your son has the type of issues you describe. They track his progress, and can help pinpoint problem areas and potential solutions, and also evolve as the child develops. Getting the right diagnosis and/or the right therapies, even if you have to take him every year until he's 30, will make a huge difference in his life (and yours), an the earlier the better.
- You should take yourself to a support group run by professionals or some kind of one-on-one counseling with a professional who specializes in guiding parents of kids on the spectrum or with cognitive delays or whatever else. Your child is different than the average child and therefore needs different parenting methods and strategies than the average child. This will both empower you to not feel so helpless in helping your son, as well as help him move forward in a variety of developmental/social/emotional areas. It will also help preserve your relationship with him (no matter what his problems are, kids sense how we really feel about them).
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Mon, Oct 24 2016, 3:23 pm
amother wrote:
Please put in the time and effort now if not you will have a twenty five year old who still acts like a nine year old
Please I have a young adult child who is still a child. While they finished school they still need to be told to bathe to clean to complete any tasks. My adult child should be married and working and is still a child.
I did not go to therapy as I felt my child is just immature and will take a bit longer to mature. I am kicking myself that I never forced the issue then. And I am spending so much money now on therapy anyways !
Wishing you all the best for a gut yunfit and May Hashem give you the strength to get thru this.


Don't kick yourself. You don't know that it would have been better if you'd taken him to therapy earlier.
Therapy isn't a godsend. Sometimes it works but sometimes it does harm. There are actually children out there that do take longer to mature, and rushing them to therapy needlessly labels them and can destroy their self esteem. Speaking from experience here.
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amother
Navy


 

Post Mon, Oct 24 2016, 3:53 pm
Been there, done that, know how difficult it is.

You have received a lot of excellent advice here.

If I may be so bold, therapy might be useful for you in coping with this.

My 20 year old DD has been diagnosed with PDD. She reached developmental milestones including social skills very late. At 14 she was playing with 8 year olds. It's difficult for many reasons to cope with a child whose chronological age is not the same as there developmental age.

On the bright side, she has made tremendous strides in the last few years. She is doing things that I feared she would never be able to do. Our shrink has been wonderfully helpful just by constantly reassuring me that she is slowly making progress and that eventually she will catch up. He saw her recently and said she's now at about the level of a 16-17 year old.

If you have a diagnosis you will be able to see what you can realistically expect and what strategies will help maximize his potential. Even if you get an answer that you don't like you will know where you stand and be able to plan accordingly.
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 25 2016, 3:15 am
He doesn't need psychological therapy, he needs neurological therapy, which is what 'executive function' therapy is all about.

It's scary to realize that a child may take a long time to become independent. And some are never completely independent. It's quite confusing when a child talks like a genius, but acts immature.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Tue, Oct 25 2016, 10:12 am
chani8 wrote:
He doesn't need psychological therapy, he needs neurological therapy, which is what 'executive function' therapy is all about.

It's scary to realize that a child may take a long time to become independent. And some are never completely independent. It's quite confusing when a child talks like a genius, but acts immature.

This. Neurological meaning developmental.

Please take this in the spirit in which it is meant. It seems as though you are holding your ds up to your vision of who/what you want/expect him to be and only seeing where he falls short. This will be painful but you need help coming to terms with the fact that he may not be the person you want him to be. An excellent developmental therapist can work with your son and provide parent counseling for you at the same time so that you understand the root and extent of your ds's challenges, where you can expect him to progress and by how much. This is really important so you can begin to see your ds for who he really is and accept him wherever he is at, while he works to improve his functioning.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 25 2016, 9:12 pm
Yup.

PDD means "pervasive development disorder". As in, the kid matures a whole lot slower than peers.

I don't know what kind of therapy you're doing, but a whole array is good.

A good BCBA supervising a good ABA therapist should make a very significant difference with life skills and general functioning. You probably want a behavior plan for mealtimes and shul behavior, among other things.

A good OT should be of help with sensory issues and fine motor skills building.

A good speech therapist should be able to help with communication skills, teaching him about socially appropriate ways to relate to peers, as well as other areas of nonverbal communication.

Social skills training is also of vital importance. And the groups will give him peers who function at a level closer to his.

In addition, I highly recommend that you read some of the books written by people on the spectrum to get a better idea of what life is like inside that brain of his.
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