Expectations from Shabbos guests

amother

Orange

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 11:46 am

You are hosting a family from a different neighborhood that you love spending time with but don't get to do so often enough in this busy child raising full time working stage of life. You are happily giving up the usual Shabbos bonus time to spend schmoozing with DH, leisurely admiring kids' projects, asking the parsha questions and hearing the divrei Torah at the table. Spending Thursday night shopping and cooking extra. Making the beds. Spending Motzei Shabbos putting the house back together and washing all the linens. Etc Etc. Really truly happy and looking forward to the families having a fun Shabbos together.
Then guest brings up a Motzei Shabbos activity that won't start til 8pm and will last at least 2 hours. Am I unreasonable/not within the norm that this is way too much for me to handle? That I need my space to get my after Shabbos upside down house back in order and get the kids to bed at a normal time- especially the boys who have school on Sunday, and the little ones who will be nuts and hung over from their late Friday night playing and sleep over party?
This is really bugging me. I was so proud of myself that I straight out said that hosting beyond 8 on Motzei Shabbos after having spent the last 24+ hours together on a school night is not something I am willing to do. But guest seemed quite disappointed that this was my reaction. So now it's bothering me and I feel guilty. But I still think I am right!

groovy1224

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 11:52 am

I think you're getting a little too insulted about this- she probably didn't think that this activity would be more work for you, she probably just wanted to spend more time with you! When we host sleeping guests on early shabbosim, we usually end up doing something Saturday night.

Of course if you need that time to get your house back together, that's completely understandable and you should do that. But don't look at it like she was putting another expectation on you- you said yourself you don't get to see them as much as you like, she probably feels the same way, and she assumes that once she's already in your neighborhood, she wants to squeeze as much as she can into the weekend.

So I don't think you're crazy for turning it down, but I don't think it should be bugging you.

imasinger

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 11:52 am

It's OK for the guest to sound disappointed.

Hopefully, you worded it nicely, and just said, "I'm sorry, it's just too much for me," without mentioning your need for space, or the work that went into hosting thus far.

It's good to know your limits, and not let pushy people push you past them.

mummiedearest

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 11:55 am

did they want to attend this activity with you and your kids? did they want you to watch their kids so they could go? or did they want to attend with their kids without you?

I think you have the right to say no. at the same time, you have the right to ask them to help get the house in order if they want to stay extra. if these are people you really don't see that often, you might find that a better option.

debsey

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 11:55 am

You always have a choice in situations like this - dissapointing her or dissapointing yourself. This time, you chose dissapointing her. That's a valid choice - I think what you are upset about is that you extended yourself so much for her, and now, just because you said no to the very last thing, she was upset, making you feel that the whole shabbos somehow ended on a sour note.

These things happen.

tichellady

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 12:03 pm

there is no reasonable/within the norm here, this is a personal thing. she is allowed to feel disappointed without you being defensive. just try to enjoy shabbos and not worry so much about saturday night.

in the future don't bring up that will need your space after 24 hours. just say it's too much before a school night but don't make her feel that hosting them is such an imposition.

amother

Orange

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 12:14 pm

All I said to her was that the activity won't work because it's a school night for us so by 8 I need to be able to start putting kids to bed.
Activity would be for me and her for sure and possibly an older kid or two, leaving the rest home with the husbands to wreak havoc and undo the post Shabbos clean up while we are out (little kids I mean- hopefully not the husbands!)
The whole Megillah about the time and effort involved in hosting was to get that off my chest and vent to you guys. Hopefully she thinks I'm superwoman who pulls these things off without batting an eyelash Smile

Did I mention I am 8 months pregnant?

amother

Aquamarine

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 12:56 pm

Hold on.
Is this activity something you would like to do?
If no, then forget what I'm about to suggest.

Shabbos ends early enough for you to put everyone to sleep, each family in their own home. Let her DH take her kids home.
Then go out with her.

If the kids are sleeping, they don't have to know that DH is home watching them without you. Just keep it hush.

Now, if you really don't want to go out. That's a whole different story.

As far as chores, DH can definitely help out and get the house in order for you to go out and have a good time, just you and her.
You can drop her off later on.

Again, this is only if you really wanted to go. You'll be home by 11:30 pm.

thunderstorm

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 3:29 pm

Everyone is different. I have no issues hosting until Sunday morning even though it's a school day on sunday. I know that coming into Shabbos I'll have a big mess to clean up and it's just part of having guests. But by no means does it mean that everyone is the same way and I understand when my sil wants me out so that she could clean up, or else I help out and clean up the mess with her when I am the guest.

Tablepoetry

Sat, Nov 26 2016, 12:43 pm

amother wrote:

Did I mention I am 8 months pregnant?

It sounds like she suggested something fun for you two, possibly without even the older kids coming. Some hostesses would have jumped on the suggestion. It's not a weird thing to suggest. The husbands could have put the little ones to bed without them 'wreaking havoc'.

That said, of course many women just want to relax after hosting, and even going out for coffee is too much for them at that point. And you likely had a long list of things you wanted to get done. So of course you could say no, just be sensitive to the fact she probably thought a girls' evening out would be a fun opportunity for you, not another chore.

Dandelion1

Sat, Nov 26 2016, 6:30 pm

I relate, I would feel similarly. Guilty and self doubtfull and yet simultaneously defensive and justified.

Truth is that having shabbos guests is for me very overwhelming and oftentimes disappointing. By the time shabbos is over I am craving private downtime in the worst way. I am a friendly person, but I know that I am an introvert. Being around others becomes exhausting for me in a very real way.

People are just different. Don't second guess yourself! Your needs and limits are as valid as any one else's!

seeker

Sat, Nov 26 2016, 9:41 pm

I think it was fine for them to ask, and fine for you to decline. No one is required to be a mindreader and know what you would or wouldn't enjoy. I have friends with crazy busy lives and kids and jobs and whatnot, but they would still be up for something fun after a busy Shabbos because they just really like to have a good time and they know that if they don't just bust out and go for it, then it will never "be a good time." Now, that is NOT me. I need time to decompress between activities, and I also need to feel that things are a certain level of settled before I can go ahead with fun stuff (which may be why I don't do enough fun things and get burned out but that's a completely different story.) Both are perfectly fine but there is no way for the other person to know which way you are, especially since a person's preference can change between each time.

She did nothing wrong, you did nothing wrong, her disappointment is her problem, and that's it.

amother

Seafoam

Sat, Nov 26 2016, 10:36 pm

I feel similarly to seeker and aleph. I would really need some peace and quiet and times to regroup after hosting for an entire Shabbos, even people who I really enjoy being with. I would also feel stressed out by the thought of coming home late and then having to deal with all the mess.

I think that different people have different things that they can or can't handle and that they do or don't find stressful. It sounds like maybe this friend is just a different personality from you and doesn't relate to your very legitimate feeling that going out at that point would be stressful. If the situation was reversed, she might find it more relaxing to go out and have a nice time, even if it meant dealing with the mess and late bedtime after the fact, while you feel that it's more relaxing to stay home, have some downtime, and get everyone back on schedule and your house back in order.

I have many friends, am B"H successful in a very people-oriented profession, and get along well with almost anyone, but I am definitely an introvert and also need certain amount of order in my life. I can completely relate to how you feel about this scenario and would definitely feel the same way. I find that many people who have a personality that is different than mine have a hard time grasping those needs of mine or understanding why I would often rather stay home than go out, even with people whose company I enjoy, but I try not to let that get to me and to remind myself that this is my personality and these are my limits and I don't have to feel bad about it.

bluebird

Sat, Nov 26 2016, 10:37 pm

amother wrote:

But guest seemed quite disappointed that this was my reaction. So now it's bothering me and I feel guilty. But I still think I am right!

She suggested something because she wanted to spend time with you, it didn't work out, and she was disappointed. That doesn't mean you did anything wrong; as adults we know that not every plan we want to make will happen. Her disappointment in that is normal, and if she's a healthy adult she's not obsessing over it or thinking anything bad about you. I wouldn't worry about it at all. If you're concerned then try proposing the next get-together.