12th Grade Limudei Kodesh for Girls

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amother

Royalblue

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 7:45 pm

I'm looking to get guidance on 12th grade limudei kodesh for a girl. Following are some questions and areas that I would like to clarify:

a. Chumash Rashi - what should a 12th grader be capable of doing, reasonably speaking?
b. Are any other Meforshim for Chumash typically learned?
c. What is learned Bekiyus and what is learned B'Iyun?
d. With respect to Hebrew vocabulary, strictly referring to Loshon HaKodesh and not Ivris, how would you quantify their vocabulary for this grade level?

I'm not asking for the most idealistic scenario - but guidance that can be used as goals.

If you have any other subjects or suggestions I would be interested in hearing them too.

cnc

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 8:20 pm

amother wrote:

At that age I was expected to prepare the pasuk with rashi and some other meforshim (sifsei chachamim etc) on my own before class. There were many other meforshim learned as well in the class -sometimes 4-6 other meforshim per pasuk.

Certain teachers had their meforshim that they focused on and those were learned more in depth vs. the other ones that were just touched upon.

It really depends on the school but in my high school the teachers expected us to have a higher lashon kodesh level than my class actually did. Most of us were not adequately prepared.

trixx

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 8:23 pm

not sure what you need this for (to see if your daughter is up to pace? to home school? to plan a curriculum?) but torah umesorah has curriculm outlines that may be of help. physical copy (like a 12 year program of ivrit), and also check chinuch.org for user-uploaded material like on historia

you also need to clarify if this is a bais yaakov school or other

amother

Royalblue

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 9:51 pm

Cnc - how do you feel now - do you think your class should have been up to this level?

Trixx - I would prefer not to go into details as to why I'm asking these questions - it's for personal reasons. Good idea to look on chinuch.org

I am referring to a Bais Yaakov type of education.

cnc

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 10:31 pm

amother wrote:

I'm not really sure if they should have been up to this level.. I have a lot to say but would prefer to do it through PM. Would you feel comfortable with that?

amother

Jade

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 11:33 pm

By 12th grade she should definitely be able to read the passuk and rashi and understand them. and they would be doing lots of other meforshim too. Most high schools use the mikraos gedolos chumash which has many meforshim and the teachers choose which they will learn on which passuk.

amother

Royalblue

Tue, Nov 29 2016, 5:55 pm

Any other feedback on these questions? I really would like to get a better feel of what's expected in 12th grade. Thanks!

pause

Tue, Nov 29 2016, 6:10 pm

amother wrote:

a. Preparing on her own fully. Looking into sifsei chachamim and/or gur arye to clarify rashi's question and answer.
b. most meforshim from a mikra'os gedolos so that includes kli yakar, even ezra, ohr hachaim, etc.
c. bekiyus and be'iyun depend on the specific school. I believe most 12th grades learn sefer bereishis be'iyun.
d. This also depends on the specific school but definitely their vocabulary should be rich enough to understand context of a meforash even if they can't translate every word individually. Definitely they should have mastered basic dikduk to be able to figure out the zman, guf, and shoresh of any word, even if they don't know the meaning of that particular shoresh.

ectomorph

Tue, Nov 29 2016, 6:28 pm

amother wrote:

I worked in this field.

She should be able to understand a regular, basic rashi easily. It's okay to need help for the dikdik ones.

She should have an idea of the basic approaches of rashi, sifsei chachamim, Raman, ibn Ezra, ohr chachaim, kli yakar. Preferably also sforno and Baal haturim.

Doesn't mean she needs to be perfect on the first try - but if she needs to understand rashi she should know to look at sifsei chachamim, if she wants an intellectual explanation Ramban, etc. If she hears an explanation she should be able to make an educated guess about who said it.

Most schools teach some parshiyos in iyun some bekiyus. This varies by school and teacher. She should be comfortable with 10-15 topics in iyun and have covered most parshiyos in bekiyus.

Popular iyun topics for each defer, just to give you an idea: beraishis: shabbos, Abraham's tests, the brachos to the Shevatim
Shmos: the makkos and how they develop, az yashir, the dibros
Vayikra is usually bekiyus plus a model of the mishkan and or vessels or clothes.
Bamidbar: the degalim and counting, spies, what korach did bad, para aduma, bilam, Pinchas.
Devarim is Mishna Torah, Moshe's tefila, gar grizim and avel, shoftim, eishes uefas toar, haazinu, Moshe's brachos.

ectomorph

Tue, Nov 29 2016, 6:33 pm

Re vocabulary: she should be able to read semi fluently... Not stopping every other word. Every 20 words is fine.
By veschanan for instance, when she reads the sifsei chachamim on the ten leshonos of tefila (lol I hope I'm right) she should know 8/10 without previous experience.

ectomorph

Tue, Nov 29 2016, 6:35 pm

I suggest you find out what interests her. Do iyun in something related to that.

ectomorph

Tue, Nov 29 2016, 7:03 pm

One more thing. She should know the parshiyos in order. This is a very basic thing that makes a difference in understanding the flow of the parshiyos.

amother

Royalblue

Wed, Nov 30 2016, 2:25 pm

Thanks so much for the detailed feedback ectomorph.

Any info on other subjects which should be covered apart from Chumash?

Still not very clear on the quantity of the Loshon HaKodesh vocabulary required.

ectomorph

Wed, Nov 30 2016, 3:44 pm

amother wrote:

Usually a Navi and at least one megila is learned too... Every school has a different way they cover the material.
Halacha, ivris, dikduk, tefila, parsha...
It's very inter-related. If she reads the parsha with haftorah every week that's great. Of she does that, she probably davens every morning. That familiarity makes everything easier. It gives her more context.

Re vocabulary:
Depends. Does she want to get into BJJ? Then she should be able to read a Ramban on the first try. Does she just need to be average? She should be able to read a Ramban but not necessarily understand it without help.

Are you homeschooling? Or trying to catch her up to grade level? If the former, you should consult with a 12 grade mechanexhes. If the latter, it really depends why she fell behind.

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