Possible mamzer and issues with community

Seas

Wed, Dec 14 2016, 6:25 pm

ra_mom wrote:

Hi Seas

I'm not ginger amother (you can decide to believe me or not, it matters little to me either way). I've actually decided to stop posting for a while, as I was wasting far too much time on here, and I only occasionally lurk.

At times I've been tempted to add my two cents, but nothing was really important enough. However, I don't like it when words I never said are attributed to me.

FTR, I've never posted as amother (except when posting personal info that could out me). However, I can fully understand why some women might be reluctant to post anything remotely loyal to Hashem and halacha under their own sn.

As to the matter at hand, I fully agree with the community. If someone committed z'nus in such a fashion, not even having the respect for Hashem to hide it (public aveiros are much worse), and is continuing to live with the בועל, let her go to hell. The frum community has no obligation whatsoever to help her.

And you can call me judgemental if you wish. So what. The 'cardinal sin' of the 21st century - being judgemental. You know what's a bigger sin? Committing adultery.

Feh.

Seas

Wed, Dec 14 2016, 6:27 pm

ally wrote:

In the case of uncircumventable proof, it is my understanding that the beis din will also look for ways to invalidate the original marriage before declaring a mamzer.

That's what Goren did and it was rejected by the entire Torah world.

Maybe My Family

Wed, Dec 14 2016, 6:30 pm

amother wrote:

Yes I know, it only works one way.
If you want to make fun of halacha you can say it whichever way you want on this site and everyone loves you.
Anyway I'm out of this conversation so you can continue having your merry party here comparing the true Torah sources to Karaites.

I am not making fun of any Halacha here ...... I actually haven't posted even one comment about the topic of this thread I have just been reading and find it very ironic how you are so busy with Torah and Halacha when it fits your agenda ..... Frankly your way of talking and choice of words are in clear violation of the Torah commandments and in my humble opinion the Torah has 613 commandments ...... You seem to be getting hooked on the ones that prove your point and forgetting some others along the way .... We are required to keep them all equally ..

Now go get your leaned Dh opinion on the matter

amother

Brown

Wed, Dec 14 2016, 6:31 pm

amother wrote:

My learned dh checked up all the sources for me.

And I said they can't be used as a source. I asked for a source and all I got was a random article written by a student.

Ginger, I hate to be the first to tell you this, but...you're a woman. Like the woman who wrote the YU article. Same lady parts. If we can't trust her capacity to understand what learned men say, why trust yours?
And if you want to go by how learned the men in question are, she quoted the rambam, shulchan aruch, r Moshe isserless...and you quoted your dh.

amother

Ginger

Wed, Dec 14 2016, 6:33 pm

amother wrote:

I said I'm out of here, but I can't stand all of you who don't want to believe halacha.
I did not say my dh, I said he gave the sources.
I gave clear places where this halacha is written.
I don't understand what any of your point is.

amother

Ginger

Wed, Dec 14 2016, 6:35 pm

cutemom1 wrote:

No one does not have to be polite when people speak against the shulchan aruch.

Seas

Wed, Dec 14 2016, 6:35 pm

cutemom1 wrote:

I can bring you Torah sources for how to conduct yourself bein Adam lechavero..... And how to respect a fellow Jew ...Or you can ask your learned DH whatever suits you best .... Frankly you decided to skip over those halachos judging by your choice of words and attitude .....

Talk about having the Torah fit your agenda .....

The Chafetz Chaim was certainly well versed in halachos of bein adam lchaveiro, having penned several seforim pertaining to these dinim.

He writes in the hakdamah of one of his seforim, that although bein adam lchaveiro is extremely important, the mitzvos that distinguish us from g0yim, and for which we are called an am kadosh, however, are the ones that are bein adam lamokoim.

Being nice and good is very important and is a great mitzvah, but what defines us a holy Jewish nation is not eating treifah, keeping Shabbos, not committing adultery and all the other mitzvos bein adam lamokoim.

cnc

Wed, Dec 14 2016, 6:46 pm

amother wrote:

http://www.jta.org/1972/11/20/archive/goren-clears-mamzerim-hanoch-and-miriam-langer-wed-their-fiances

Interesting, and I'm assuming based on Seas posts that the Gedolim did not agree with Goren?
I never heard of Goren before-he was before my times Smile

, but I was under the impression that in this day and age Rabbanim generally do (legitimate ones-that are not controversial at all) try to find halachic loopholes so that children should not be mamzerim. It was mentioned when I learned about the concept of mamzeirus, and I've heard it mentioned much more recently as well.

ETA I'm not commenting on the scenario in the OP because the entire thread is fishy if you ask me-I'm just commenting on this point in general.

Maybe My Family

Wed, Dec 14 2016, 6:56 pm

Seas wrote:

Fine I'm not here to argue what defines us as a nation that wasn't my point at all .... The chofetz Chaim is not saying that you should throw bein Adam lechavero out the window and only practice bein Adam lamakom .... My point to ginger was that the same Torah disapproves of her approach on this thread .... And I am referring specifically to the choice of words and attitude not the content of her controversy

ally

Wed, Dec 14 2016, 7:05 pm

cnc wrote:

Interesting, and I'm assuming based on Seas posts that the Gedolim did not agree with Goren?
I never heard of Goren before-he was before my times Smile

Perhaps most famously, he blew the shofar at the kotel when it was liberated in 67.