How do you mitigate the materialism when others push it?

amother

Floralwhite

Tue, Dec 27 2016, 3:08 pm

Personally, I believe that when it comes to gifts, less is more, and that love and happiness come from sharing quality time and enjoying that which you do have. I like to treat my kids but keep it in moderation and definitely scale back my own gifting at times when they are getting gifts from others. I also believe in pairing gifts with experiences - like if you have a nice visit with grandparents and happen to come away with a gift in your hand, it wasn't ALL about the gift (of course if said grandparents aren't local and send something instead, that's different - but you get what I mean, right?)

For weird emotional reasons DH feels exactly the opposite. Maybe he was deprived in childhood or something. I'm not really opposed to a dad giving his kids gifts, but there's an attitude that comes with it that I hate. Also, he doesn't listen to me at all when it comes to timing or amount. I'd like some compromise - for example, save the gift for a time when it's meaningful rather than just piling it on when ten other things are going on. And/or scale back on your own gifting if you know others (grandparents, parties, etc) are going to be giving something. He won't listen to any of that. So that's one part of the issue, and the other is that well within their earshot he has a whole mussar shmooze to go with it that is definitely not what I want to convey to my kids. Something like "When I was a kid, my aunt Sally gave me lots of presents, and now she's the only one I have anything to do with and I like her the best." (when the gifts were just symbolic of the ACTUAL REAL loving and caring, the reason why this is the best aunt is because she has a lot of love and caring and gifts are just one expression of it especially when she was not able to see him often and would send gifts instead.)

So it's only the third day of Chanukah and already my kids are turning into unrecognizable monsters. I know I need to stop being a spoilsport about the over-gifting that's going to happen anyway, but I'm not sure how to approach this positively. I also feel sad that I can't get anything in myself, with so much bombardment from others - I have things I've put away to give to my kids on a special occasion, but with DH pushing things on them right and left and me not wanting to overdo it, my thoughtful, well-chosen gifts never seem to have their moment. But the bigger problem is how do I preserve my kids' middos and non-materialism with this all going on?

amother

Vermilion

Tue, Dec 27 2016, 3:42 pm

Few points
1. when jumps at me is that YOUR main love language is quality time while your HUSBAND's is gifts. They are both love languages.

2. we personally we don't believe in necessarily matching presents to special occasion. For example we want it to be that seeing grandparents are in and of itself a reason to be excited not a trigger to expect a present.

My husband feels VERY strongly and this is his mishagas that he doesn't get presents for birthdays, chanukah etc... he feels like he loves all the time - insert aww- why only show his love at what he considers externally specified times. We actually had a whole discussion with our older child about this. Even with prior discussion with our dc about this she still came home feeling jealous of other kids chanukah present. She has recently received well thought out presents that were actually quite costly but we didn't buy her anything for Chanukah. we told her just consider the present we just got her as her chanukah present if that makes her feel better. So in sum I don't think you have to wait for a "special occassion" but rather a quiet non-special occasion to give them your gifts Wink

3. can you take the gift giving as love language a step further and work on re-gifting stuff- talk to your kids about how there might be other children who would appreciate if they would give away some of their toys? For example is there a toy gemach in town. It seems you can't stop the influx but may be you can also focus on your kids "giving"

good luck, I feel for your dilemma.

amother

Floralwhite

Tue, Dec 27 2016, 5:37 pm

Yes, I'm in agreement that any time can be a good time for a loving gift, but what I'm saying is I don't feel there has been ANY downtime in a really long time! It's just too much.

I get the love language thing. I do have one child whose love language is objects. Therefore I make sure to give her things with extra love (I don't exclude my other kids when doing so, just saying that it's for her sake when I think about buying them things.) Which is also another reason why I'm upset that I don't seem to have a chance here with other people bombarding them and making my gifts pretty much disappear. But I also think that when you have a young child whose main love language is objects, you davka need to teach them to appreciate other love languages as well. I want to give her just enough that she can feel loved in this way, but not enough to actively encourage it.

Plus, it's one thing if you just communicate USING the love language. I don't believe that it is healthy to teach this kind of love language in the way DH is doing, by talking about how he only loves the aunt who gave him gifts. It makes me want to puke, actually. I don't think he realizes how it sounds but he keeps bringing it up and even when he's not telling it outright, you can see the difference in attitude between this and normal gift-giving.

Combine that with aunts/uncles and grandparents and Chanukah party prizes and school prizes and it's just... overwhelming.

I shouldn't have called my kids monsters but they are definitely acting different under the influence of all this and I'm concerned. I don't want them to imbibe DH's message that we value people who give us gifts more than those who don't, or that we only feel love through gifts, or that we need constantly new stuff to stay happy.

They also get attached to each thing they are given, which if they are given too much then they aren't even really playing with each thing, but then it accumulates and they never want to get rid of it. Which is fine because it's MOSTLY not actual junk (though some is, and they won't get rid of that either) but it's becoming an organizational nightmare. We live in a small space and it's already bursting with the previous round of stuff... the amount of physical objects my 4-year-old personally owns is unbelievable... I actually do have an appreciation for the love language of gifts even though it's not my main mode, but to me a better gift would be one thing of more value rather than 100 trinkets that are fun to get but then mostly just sit around. So far the kids got exactly ONE gift of any value, a nice game that they can actually enjoy, and guess what? They haven't even had time to play it yet because they are too busy being bombarded with new excitement each day! It's waiting for Shabbos, I guess, when we can also have a conversation about the nosh bombardment of which we are also putting away excess for Shabbos.

ra_mom

Tue, Dec 27 2016, 5:58 pm

I understand you to a point. My dh just buys instead of gifting. Gives when kids ask instead of offering that the child can receive it for a special occasion or earn it.
But I've learned to just be happy that he's a good dad bh. Smile

He likes to show affection to his children in this way.
He's not big on buying birthday presents either but will give me whatever I ask for whenever. I've learned to appreciate the good part of that. Tongue Out

My suggestion? Expect that this will happen. Be OK with it. Appreciate the great dad he is and be OK with the different styles of parenting that you each bring to the table. It will not confuse the kids. No worries. I'm sure even the little ones already know who to ask what from. Very Happy

And... Give your gift first! On the first night of chanukah, or right before the first chanukah night starts, when it's quiet and the menorah isn't out yet, and the anticipation of chanukah is out there... Give your gift then, the way you like to give it. Show them how thought out it was. And they'll appreciate it and not forget about it when the other gifts come.

Last edited by ra_mom on Tue, Dec 27 2016, 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

sourstix

Tue, Dec 27 2016, 6:12 pm

Op I think jmho that you are right but, I you might be overthinking a little. Your dh loves his kids. He's expressing it in his own way. You can take that moment and go further and explain this to your kids. Say, tatty loves you and thinks about you and that's why he bought this for you. Don't turn this into a negative thing. You might regret this. Many fathers don't spend time buying for their kids. Look at the good

And I'm agreeing this is healthy. You might have a different idea but don't knock your dhs way of it.

Sharing with others is beautiful, but don't expect it, because this is their gift. Would you give away your gift? Maybe they have something they are not really using anymore to give away. Also I would do this with kids old enough to understand this. Not sure though what age. I think by the time they are 6-7. Depending on the child. Some children want to keep everything. That's ok too, some even regret giving later on. Make sure they don't regret giving. They need to be old enough.

I'm not saying not to. Just be wise about it. And you can turn it into something good

Last edited by sourstix on Tue, Dec 27 2016, 6:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

Zehava

Tue, Dec 27 2016, 6:15 pm

I like all these suggestions
Also, and this isn't easy,
LISTEN really LISTEN to what your dh is trying to tell you when he repeats the story.
Maybe he feels insecure. Maybe he's afraid the kids don't love him enough. Maybe he needs reassurance.
And when was the last time you bought him a gift?
I get that this is frustrating.
My dh likes to pile the kids with nosh and if it were up to him they'd be walking chocolate cupcakes.
But sometimes it pays to take a step back and let go a little.
Chances are every time you try yo fight your dh on this he buys more gifts to prove his point.

amother

Floralwhite

Tue, Dec 27 2016, 10:07 pm

You're all making good points. I need to figure out how to get it into my brain though... I do need to stop judging DH's way, I'm not sure why this is so hard for me. Maybe because he's just as rigid from his end. Or maybe it's that nasty story about how his aunt who gave him gifts is the only one he loves. Or maybe it's that his story makes me even more convinced that it's dysfunctional to make gifts the main love language.

I TRIED to initiate a conversation about choosing something from their many things to give to someone in need, and it did not go well at all. This, even though a gift they jointly received yesterday is something that they already have ("but maaaaa we don't already have THIS almost identical one!" I told them OK, but let's put it aside for a few days while we think about different ways to share what we have.) So I could use more tips on how to teach my kids generosity. I do try to do giving things as a family and to give them things from me to give to others, but I need to find more opportunities.

About giving gifts separately - real gifts we give together, but little things, those love language gestures, aren't always coordinated. And even a together gift, I'd like it to sometimes be the thing I chose or at least have some discussion about it. Usually it's whatever DH wants he does and he graciously says it's from both of us.

It's hard to assess the real issues like how this might affect our kids' chinuch when something that should be so simple turns out to be emotionally tangled like this. But all the analysis in the world still leaves me wondering whether this is good for the kids and how to encourage a healthy attitude toward giving and receiving.

amother

Khaki

Tue, Dec 27 2016, 10:54 pm

OP, I so understand you. DH cannot say no to our kids for anything, be it a treat at the bakery or a new toy/game/book, etc. It's not even a thought for him to tell them "maybe for your birthday" or "maybe if you get a good report card"... Nothing. Just they want it they get it. This is amplified by his parents doing the same. Constant gift giving. No rhyme or reason. And my kids are getting greedier and more unappreciative all the time. I have begged DH to stop. I have even asked my ILs to stop. No dice. Even after I tell them that most of it will be given away for poor kids because my kids already have more than they can ever wear, use, play with, etc. It's like banging my head against the wall. I appreciate the generosity, I do. I know there are amothers who have complained about DHs that never buy anything, about grandparents who never gift their kids, etc. But this is just obnoxious and it's making my kids just spoiled rotten. I wish a gift could actually have some meaning. I wish one time I could give them something and they would feel truly blessed and grateful and happy inside - not just like, "Oh, more stuff."

amother

Papaya

Tue, Dec 27 2016, 10:57 pm

It's hard to let go but just live a little. It will be OK.
This man is their father. Let them enjoy the real him.
With time you will learn to let go of all his quirks and actually see the good side to them. When you do, learn to appreciate the good and use that as your stepping tone to begin to respect him for who he his.
I may be reading into things but it sounds like The Surrendered Wife book may be good for you. It will help you let go and build your husband up so he can step up and be the man that you both want him to be.