Did any rav ever explicitly tell you...

amother

Hotpink

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 11:32 am

That since your child is a difficult child, has a bad nature etc., they are not obligated in certain mitzvahs for the time being? I'm not referring to a kids at risk expert or a situation where a rav advised you that since your child isn't going to listen anyhow don't bring up the issue. I am referring to a situation where the rav actually told you the child isn't obligated for the time being because they fall into the category of being a choleh or something similar.

If yes what were the circumstances and what mitzvahs did they say it about? I've heard rabbonim say the above hypothetically but I've yet to hear one apply it to any specific situation.

Or if you know of a rav DH and I can speak to (for more than ten minutes....) who will give us a clear answer and guidelines rather than vaguely saying the above and leaving us to use our own judgment let me know.
Thank you.

amother

Violet

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 12:01 pm

Are you talking about a kid over bar mitzva?
My rav told us to not push any mitzva at all when my child was young because he was having serious psychological difficulties that could be exacerbated by any additional pressure. No tzitzis, no brochos, no pressure to be at the shabbos table--everything set him off. But technically he wasn't obligated at all at that age, because he was under bar mitzva

amother

Brunette

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 3:06 pm

I wish someone had told my parents that when I was an adolescent! They would get angry and sad when I missed Megillah or YK davening, not understanding that it had nothing to do with religion but these things were AGONY for me. I just can't sit on a bench and listen to a chazan daven and say pages and pages of tefilla. I would rather watch everyone in the neighborhood's kids than sit like that. Some mitzvos are really really hard for people with ADD!! Especially as a teenager when there was so much fun to be had! I think this rav's advice was wise.

DVOM

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 3:16 pm

What an interesting question, Hotpink. We are very close to our Rabbi, and talk to him alot about how we are raising our kids. What he's told us on different occations is that our obligation towards our children's religious education is to A)teach them the machanics of the mitzvos (so they need to learn to read hebrew, for example, to daven) and B)to lead by example (this would be me and my husband demonstrating a love for davening ourselves). We try to apply this to everything we do. I'm trying to think of a good example... chessed. We dont force my kids to share with each other, but they often see my husband inviting tzeddaka collectors to join us for coffee, or a snack, or, on several memorable occations, dinner. We cant affort to give donations right now, but we want our kids to witness us giving. They can sometimes be possessive about thier toys, but for the most part, they are such loving children. My son just told me this morning that he gave on of the kids in his class a 'chanukah present' yesterday, one of his lego menchies. These are my little guys most prized possessions, so I asked he what promted this. He told me that this other kid doesnt have any 'good' lego guys, and doesnt get included in the recess 'lego club' because of it... My kids are little, and I'm not sure which mitzvos your reffering too, but I dont see how obligating a challenging, difficult child to do something he doesnt want to do will get you what you want in the long run: a kid who loves and finds meaning in his religion. I think If you have a good relationship with him, and he sees you getting deep joy and satisfaction from your religion, his own investment in religion will come when he has the maturity to develop it.

amother

Aqua

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 3:29 pm

I never asked my rav, but we had a VERY difficult situation with our teenage son a few years ago. Shabbosim were the hardest because he was home alot and it happened a few times where my son lost control, became violent and would make all kind of threats. His threats were usually against himself. Anyway, during those times if he went into his room on shabbos and went on his ipad or started watching television, my husband and I would allow it and not stop him. Is this the type of situation you're referring to op?

amother

Hotpink

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 3:40 pm

amother wrote:

OP here. Similar.

amother

Honeydew

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 6:28 pm

amother wrote:

I'm having the same issue with my 8-year-old son. How old is your son now? How are his psychological issues? How is his mitzvah observance?

ectomorph

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 7:34 pm

amother wrote:

Before or after bar bas mitzvah?
Which mitzvos?
I feel like the answer is highly personal

leah233

Thu, Dec 29 2016, 3:13 pm

I don't know if this will help you but the Ami magazine had an interview with Shimon Russel (a therapist) on the topic of kids at risk. He said that every rov he spoke to about this question agreed that there is some sort choleh status in these situations but none were willing to give an exact guideline.

Presumably because this type of question is so case specific that is really hard to give general one size fits all guidelines.