Challenging behaviors of a 5 y.o.

amother

Purple

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 9:41 pm

My 5.5 year old used to be so happy and sweet. Around the time she turned 4, she started to have more negative behaviors, and now at 5.5, she's negative most of the time that she's home (she's happy at school, B'H). Here are the main issues I have:

1) Mornings. She has a hard time waking up and getting dressed, so I typically help her through the process. Then she's super picky at breakfast time. Then her carpool comes and she cries. She just started refusing to go into her carpool's car. We often make everyone else late.

She says that she doesn't want to go to school, so that's why she's difficult in the morning. I asked her if she likes school, and she said, "yes, I love my morah". (but then she mentions one of her 4 morahs and says that she doesn't like her). I asked her if she'd prefer to take the bus to school and she said no. Her school is 45 minutes away from our house, so there is just no way for me to drive her everyday. She is friends with everyone in our carpool.

2) She is very mean to her sister. My younger dd is 3.5 and she really wants to be friends with her big sister. But my 5.5 y.o. is always so mean to her! Every single thing the younger one does is wrong in the eyes of the big sister! There's major jealousy for everything. It's crazy! I asked her why she's so mean to her little sister and she said, "because she gets to spend more time with you". Now, that is true because my 3.5 year old is only in school for half days; whereas, the 5.5 y.o. is in school for full days. I tried to explain that when she was 3, she also only had school for half days, but that logic didn't go far with her.

I really try to spend quality time with her. I read her books, play games, do arts and crafts, give her yummy snacks - so much! My husband thinks I try way too hard and that I should just accept that she's miserable and that it's hopefully just a phase and I should try to make the best of it. I really want to make the situation better! I give her 10-15 minutes of my full attention before bed (without any of her siblings around) and she loves it, but it's just not enough for her.

At school, her morahs said that she's well-liked by all the other girls. She's quiet, but friendly. With the morahs, she has a lot of anxiety and really doesn't talk much (she does talk, though. She just isn't the type to raise her hand and volunteer information). The morahs are slightly concerned because of her anxiety towards them, but they don't see any alarming behavior and they say that she always seems happy.

At home, if her little sister is nearby, she's miserable. When she's only with her big brothers, then she's actually quite happy. She loves it when they read to her or play with her. But they're busy with school work and they like to play games with each other sometimes and don't include her. Obviously that's part of the problem. Gah!!!

Ok, sorry for the long, detailed rant. If anyone has any suggestions, I would be so grateful!!! I'm really going through a difficult time here!

amother

Lawngreen

Thu, Dec 29 2016, 4:02 pm

I think you have 2 separate problems here: one is jealousy of her younger sister, and the other is how she feels about school.

If she has anxiety towards her teachers, I consider that a major issue, even if nothing else seems to be going on. When I was 6, I hated school - would cry every morning, etc. But the teachers said things were more or less fine. So no one did anything and as the year went on, I became depressed (and depression in a 6 year old does not look like depression in a teen or adult). I'm not saying your daughter is depressed. But what I am saying is that you shouldn't let this slide any longer. It sounds like your daughter doesn't have the skills yet to handle a lot of situations in school (which either causes her anxiety or is because of her anxiety), which causes her to dread going every day. If she's that miserable in the morning and the teachers are concerned about her behavior, those are 2 red flags in my book. I would recommend that you take your daughter to see a child psychologist to get to the bottom of the problem and help your daughter learn some coping skills either for her anxiety or whatever else at school that is difficult for her.

Also, if she doesn't like carpool, it could be because of school, or it could be that there is something about the carpool she doesn't like - try talking to your daughter, as well as the people who drive the carpool. There doesn't have to be a major problem going on for her to be unhappy in the carpool - 45 minutes is a long time to have even an slightly awkward or uncomfortable situation every single day.

As for the jealousy of her sister, my only suggestion is to make speacial mommy time with your 5.5 year old. Once a week, take her out to do something just the 2 of you - it can be short and close by - go for ice cream, play a game at the park, read a book on the bench at the corner, etc. An outing packs more punch than spending time in the house, because it seems like you are taking her out special. And if it's every week, then she can depend on that being there. Then she can feel like she gets more personalized attention.

seeker

Thu, Dec 29 2016, 9:30 pm

Is there any way DD5 can be brought on board to care for DD3? Does she get any pride in being the big sister? Being needed? My older DD can be mean too, the way I hope is totally normal for older sisters, but then at times she takes on a more mothering role and really shines. And then she gets lots of positive attention from me for being the helper. My DD fell into this more naturally because she's the oldest in the family, maybe yours was more used to being the baby to her brothers and isn't loving the shift. It's also a lot less cute to them when the little sibling isn't a baby anymore - suddenly the little harmless thing is a real competitor. Maybe she needs to still have her place.

But just as likely, the sister thing is an outlet for the other negative feelings going on. I'm with Lawngreen amother, the morning/carpool/school issue would worry me a lot. I don't have answers but I would want to bring a therapist into the picture either to guide you or to help DD directly. There is something going on and I don't know if any of us could pinpoint what it is. Could it be a sensory problem? A trauma reaction? As amother said, depression? Who knows?

amother

Bisque

Thu, Dec 29 2016, 9:42 pm

I use to be a kindergarten teacher, 1/2 day, mornings.
One day, after I finished work, I went to the grocery store and saw one of my students there with his mother.
He was not in school that day, so I inquired if he didn't feel well.
She told me that he felt totally fine.
She keeps him home every once in a while to have a special mommy day, while his younger siblings are in school.
At first I was shocked that this mother allowed her child to "skip" school, but then I thought of what an important impact this has on the child. The mom knew that he needed a mommy day just for him.
Perhaps you can do the same.
Give her the first one and let her earn future ones.

amother

Purple

Tue, Jan 03 2017, 10:15 pm

Thanks for the responses. From reading what everyone said, I realized that there were a few details that I left out. She really loves her main teacher in school. She talks about her all the time in a very positive way. She is also typically very happy right when she gets home from school - she loves to show us all of the pictures she colored and whatever else she brought home that day. I would say that she's happy right up until the attention is not 100% on her (I typically give her about 10 minutes, but it depends on the day). So for that reason, I feel quite strongly that there isn't anything wrong with school itself.

That said, she will be seeing some kind of therapist within the school. I'm not sure exactly what type of therapist it is, but the teachers all said amazing things about her and thinks that it'll give my dd a big boost in her self-esteem and help reduce her anxiety.

As for the carpool, when I drive, she's fine in the car. Three of her best friends are in the carpool! She's usually attached to me when we get to school, though. She's claimed to be sick at least twice, once she complained about her shoes, once she was upset because she forgot her sweater, etc. Always something. Bottom line: I think the whole refusing to go into the carpool thing has more to do with not wanting to leave me, than it has to do with the actual carpool or school itself.

And yes, she's extremely jealous of her younger sister (who, by the way, is very well behaved and an amazing big sister to the baby, and the older brothers love to play with her too). I really don't know how to make my 5 year old more self-confident and happy instead of always looking at her little sister! AHHH! Parenting is hard!!!

5*Mom

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 2:06 am

amother wrote:

And yes, she's extremely jealous of her younger sister (who, by the way, is very well behaved and an amazing big sister to the baby, and the older brothers love to play with her too). I really don't know how to make my 5 year old more self-confident and happy instead of always looking at her little sister! AHHH! Parenting is hard!!!

I think that was the most significant information you left out of your op Wink

. How old is your baby? It makes perfect sense that she would be anxious to leave you and showing signs of jealousy. I really like the idea of giving her a day off from school or even 1/2 a day to spend with you every now and then.

amother

Purple

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 1:29 pm

Haha, oops. Well, actually, he's technically a toddler, but we still call him the baby. He's almost 18 months.

Anyway, I have given my dd the occasional day off, but now the problem is that she asks for a day off almost every single day. I was thinking of doing a chart for it and then the prize would be a day off, but we're already doing a chart with something else as the prize, so I thought maybe two behaviour type charts at a time would be a bit much (although perhaps one can be "getting into carpool nicely" chart while the other "going to bed nicely").

In addition to the occasional day off, I also sometimes let her sleep in and then I take her to school about 1-2 hours late. She loves it, but again, she wants it every single day!

I'm also wondering what you tell your other kids when one kid gets a chart with a special treat/prize for completing it. Do you just make up a chart for your other kids too so that they can also get a prize even though they don't necessarily need the chart? I could always think of something, but I just don't find it necessary with my other kids.

Thanks!

5*Mom

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 1:59 pm

amother wrote:

Please please please don't make her earn time with you. Give it freely.

I don't do charts. I find they cause more trouble all around than they solve.

All of that being said, it does sound like you are giving her lots of time and attention. It might be time to help her learn to be okay even when she's not with you. Could you give her something special of yours to take with her to school, look at and think of you? Like an inexpensive necklace (not something you buy for her; something of yours) or an extra tichel/snood or a picture of you? It can help her hold onto you and teach her that you can still be close even when you're not together. She can also give you something of hers and when she comes home from school you can tell her how you held her whatever and were thinking of her during the day. You can also leave notes or little drawings in her backpack or lunchbox for her to find during the day. She thinks she loses you when she leaves. You can teach her that you are always connected, even when physically apart.

amother

Purple

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 8:26 pm

Quote:

I really like your response. Thanks for your suggestions. I think I'll either send a tichel or a picture of me. I guess she would just keep it in her bag? I'm not sure that it'll work for her, but I think it's definitely worth a shot. Thanks!

salt

Thu, Jan 05 2017, 6:16 am

No need to worry that the other kids will be jealous of her chart. When one of my kids has a chart, the others excitedly help them fill it out.
If it would be your 3.5 yr old getting the prizes, and the 5.5 yr old being jealous, that may be a problem, but this way round, the others may not mind.
You could always give her the said prize at the end, and in addition another little thing for her to give out to the others - a little chocolate or something.

All my kids at that age are shy of their teachers. They interact freely with their friends, and will only speak to the teacher if asked a question directly, and even then, very shyly. With time they grow out of it, and feel a little more comfortable, but not more than that. Unless her problem is way more serious that what I'm describing, why call it anxiety (=> therapy/ psycholgy/ etc) - it's just a little shy and nervous of authoritative figures. Excuse me if I'm underestimating the issue.