Home

Origin of making a Bas Mitzvah
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 
Post new topic       Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Report offensive ad

View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Poll

Did you have a Bas Mitzvah party?
YES, a big one with guests
 25%  [ 29 ]
YES, a small one for my friends
 31%  [ 36 ]
More like a nice birthday party for siblings
 18%  [ 21 ]
No, my family doesnt hold of it
 25%  [ 30 ]
Total Votes : 116


Carmen Luna









  


Post  Mon, Jan 09 2017, 5:59 pm
5mom wrote:
Better yet, you show me the Jewish sources.


Oh wow! Great comeback.. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
Back to top

GreenEyes26









  


Post  Mon, Jan 09 2017, 6:00 pm
allthingsblue wrote:
Carmen Luna, while there are some posters who do put down chareidi lifestyle, tichel lady's posts are always helpful and not derisive. even when posters post about problems that are unique to a chareidi lifestyle that could easily be avoided, she offers ideas to help! So calling her out like this was unwarranted on your part, and made me view you in a different light. I'm sorry.
And you have not addressed the poster who brought up Sara schenerir. Would you have been one of those who threw rocks at her for audaciously suggesting the opening of a women's yeshiva??


Yes. Yes she would have.
Back to top

5mom









  


Post  Mon, Jan 09 2017, 6:15 pm
Carmen Luna wrote:
Oh wow! Great comeback.. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


You mean you don't have anything, right?

Shlissel challah looks suspiciously like hot cross buns. Sometimes a key was baked into the bread for Easter and sometimes the loaf was baked in the shape of a key.

Ritual hair cutting is practiced in many cultures but doesn't enter the Jewish world until the late 16th century. That's kind of late for an obligation.

I don't think these are terrible things to do. In fact, you can make the argument that once a custom catches on among Jews, you ought to continue it. But we have definitely absorbed customs from the surrounding cultures.

Now, let's see those Jewish sources of yours.
Back to top

amother




Apricot


Post  Mon, Jan 09 2017, 6:19 pm
The first young woman in America to be called to the Torah and leyn, and to refer to that as a "bat mitzvah."

She was most certainly not the first girl to celebrate reaching halachic adulthood.

Ben Ish Chai Vol. 1, Reeh 17.

Quote:
וגם הבת ביום שתכנס בחיוב מצות אע”פ שלא נהגו לעשות לה סעודה, עכ”ז תהיה שמחה אותו היום ותלבוש בגדי שבת, ואם יש לאל ידה תלבש בגד חדש ותברך שהחיינו ותכוין גם על כניסתה בעול מצות, ויש נוהגין לעשות בכל שנה את יום הלידה ליו”ט וסימן יפה הוא וכן נוהגים בביתנו

And also for a girl, on the day when she becomes obligated to perform commandments, even though it is not the custom to make a special meal for her, even so it is a joyful day for her and she dresses in her sabbath clothes, and if she is pious, she dresses in new clothes so she can say the blessing for happy occasions, and has in mind that she is at the gateway to the yoke of the commandments, and there are those who have the custom of making a party for her every year on the day of her birth, and this is a beautiful ritual and is the custom in our house.


More to the point, there's no halachic prohibition against such a celebration. Its origin is not non-Jewish:

Rabbi Yehiel Weinberg (d. 1966) wrote the following:


Quote:
Some authorities oppose the bat mitzvah celebration on the grounds of ‘You shall not follow their ways.’ (Lev. 18:3) . . . However, the initiators of this practice claim that they intend thereby to inculcate in the girl’s heart a feeling of love for the commandments and pride in her Jewishness. . . . Some oppose the celebration because earlier generations did not practice this custom. Indeed this is no argument. In previous generations it was not necessary to give daughters a formal education since every Jew was full of Torah and piety; the very atmosphere of every Jewish settlement was thus infused with the spirit of Judaism. Girls who grew up in a Jewish home imbibed the Jewish spirit naturally. . . . Now, however, times have changed radically; the influence of the street destroys in our children any semblance of Judaism. Sound pedagogic principles require that we celebrate a girl’s reaching the age of obligation to fulfill commandments. Discrimination . . . has an adverse affect upon the self respect of the maturing girls who in other respects enjoys the so-called women’s liberation.’



Except, well, the Conservative do it! Conservative people also keep kosher and keep Shabbat. Guess we'd better not do that.

And Reform do it. Just like they fast on Yom Kippur.

Worst of all, MO do it. And as OP clearly points out, that means that frum people like her can't do it.

So we know where she's coming from.

No one has to have a party for their daughters' bat mitzvah. But there is nothing wrong with celebrating a major milestone for our daughters.

Anonymous because, frankly, people like the OP who cyberstalk other posters scare the dickens out of me.
Back to top

amother




Chartreuse


Post  Mon, Jan 09 2017, 6:22 pm
Carmen Luna wrote:
The reason I brought up the subject of Bas Mitzvah because I (justly) felt that alot of amothers don't realize the mekor behind it. I hope I dont have to convince anyone here that a minhag that has reform roots is a wrong "minhag"..
I don't think you"ll be all too thrilled if you"ll be an old Bubby sitting with your grandchildren on Chanuka and they start singing "Oh Chanuka, Oh Chanuka" in the tune of "jingle bells" wearing a red and white pom pom hat.. They can have same attitude, "oh come one granny, lighten up".. who cares where the tune and hat stem from.


Does anyone claim to have a minhag relating to a bar-mitzvah party? Like "oh by us we have a minhag of using this size hall, and this food, and this number of guests"? Celebrating girl becoming of age of mitzvot, can be done however a family chooses within the parameters of Halacha (a taught by the Rav of the community the family chooses to associate itself with).
Back to top

amother




Amethyst


Post  Mon, Jan 09 2017, 6:29 pm
Carmen Luna wrote:
I respectfully beg to differ however much it makes the more liberal of us on here uncomfortable and please see Reb Moishe Feinstein's psak:
the ceremony of Bat Mitzvah is certainly only a matter of reshut [optional] and hevel b’alma [futility]; there is no source to permit this in a synagogue. How much more so this is the case since the source comes from Reform and Conservative [movements]. Only if the [girl’s] father wants to make some kind of simchah at his home, it is permitted. But there is no concept or basis to consider this to be a . . . seudat mitzvah, because it is only like the simchah of an ordinary birthday party . . . [He discusses how he would eliminate Bar Mitzvah celebrations as well, but cannot because there are halachic sources for it], but to innovate the practice for girls, where there is no source at all to consider it a mitzvah, even in the house, certainly it would be better to prevent it


Thank you for your response. I don't in any way see the comparison to children singing chanukah songs with red hats, to the above. A Bas Mitzvah party may not be recommended, but Rav Moshe does say that if the father wants to make some kind of simchah at his home, it is permitted.
Back to top

cnc









  


Post  Mon, Jan 09 2017, 6:54 pm
Carmen Luna, I find it ironic that a heise Satmar chassidusta(based on what I remember reading here)like you is bringing R' Moshe as a Mekor.

That said- your post just seeks to put down others and not to get answers. You don't seem open to discussion.
Back to top

amother




Apricot


Post  Mon, Jan 09 2017, 7:00 pm
Carmen Luna wrote:
The reason I brought up the subject of Bas Mitzvah because I (justly) felt that alot of amothers don't realize the mekor behind it. I hope I dont have to convince anyone here that a minhag that has reform roots is a wrong "minhag"..
I don't think you"ll be all too thrilled if you"ll be an old Bubby sitting with your grandchildren on Chanuka and they start singing "Oh Chanuka, Oh Chanuka" in the tune of "jingle bells" wearing a red and white pom pom hat.. They can have same attitude, "oh come one granny, lighten up".. who cares where the tune and hat stem from.


Yes. I'm certain that celebrating a young woman taking on the onus of mitzvot is the road to perdition. One day, she's saying shechechiyanu, acccepting mitzvot. The next day, she's accepting jezus as her personal lord and savior.

I mean, look at these people. Wearing red and white and a pom pom hat. I bet that woman had a bat mitzvah.

Back to top

cnc









  


Post  Mon, Jan 09 2017, 7:12 pm
Carmen Luna wrote:
Being raised Conservative I can see why this would strike a raw nerve.. Besides since you once suggested an amother that it's better off her son marry a nonjewish woman rather than alienate her, I find your sensivity to such matters seriously warped. Here you go...

You'll do nothing but alienate them if you alienate them. It's my opinion that you have a much better chance of having Jewish grandchildren if you entice her by showing the warm and friendly side rather than alienation. It's also not unheard of for halachically not Jewish children to choose conversion based on their education or desire to be a part of the klal shown to them

I mean, seriously


I mean seriously?
How much creepier can you get?

Besides the fact that I know three real life scenarios where this did happen so I don't what your attitude is all about.
Back to top

amother




Apricot


Post  Mon, Jan 09 2017, 7:18 pm
What is the origin of making a party for a bar mitzvah? Please provide a citation from Talmud for this practice. Pirke Avot refers to a continuum or trajectory of religious development beginning with the study of Bible at age 5, the study of Mishnah at age 10, and "13 for mitzvot [commandments]." No party mentioned. Indeed, please provide any source prior to the 16th Century.

Certainly many or most cultures around the world have coming of age ceremonies:

https://www.globalcitizen.org/.....around-th/

I posit that the bar mitzvah party is nothing more than assumption of these customs, and should be assur.

Prove otherwise.
Back to top

Maya









  


Post  Mon, Jan 09 2017, 7:27 pm
Carmen Luna wrote:
Tendler by any chance?

Don't you mean Rabbi Dr. Tendler, a gaon, and their very respected and beloved leader of a beautiful community?

Your cynicism and disrespect towards those who are different than you are is unfortunately not shocking to me, but disgusting nonetheless.
Back to top

PinkFridge









  


Post  Mon, Jan 09 2017, 7:57 pm
Carmen Luna wrote:
So after all said and done, I haven't received a legitimate source (tichellady, I don't mean you, I'm referring to people that actually care about tradition and don't buy into every new enlightened and feminist trend hook, line and sinker) for making a Bas Mitzvah bash.


Shocked

Rest deleted. I'm out of this.


Last edited by PinkFridge on Mon, Jan 09 2017, 8:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

MagentaYenta









  


Post  Mon, Jan 09 2017, 8:14 pm
Carmen Luna wrote:
...
I don't think you"ll be all too thrilled if you"ll be an old Bubby sitting with your grandchildren on Chanuka and they start singing "Oh Chanuka, Oh Chanuka" in the tune of "jingle bells" wearing a red and white pom pom hat.. They can have same attitude, "oh come one granny, lighten up".. who cares where the tune and hat stem from.


Shows ya how much you know, the tune used for Oh Chanuka is the melody from Oh Tannebaum not Jingle Bells. Rolling Eyes
Back to top

minnie mouse









  


Post  Mon, Jan 09 2017, 9:30 pm
Maya wrote:
Don't you mean Rabbi Dr. Tendler, a gaon, and their very respected and beloved leader of a beautiful community?

Your cynicism and disrespect towards those who are different than you are is unfortunately not shocking to me, but disgusting nonetheless.

The same cynicism and disrespect can be said on many many posters on this board regarding anything to do with chassidim.....
Back to top
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 Recent Topics

Page 4 of 4 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic       Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Similar Topics Replies Last Post
Making Bas Mitzvah for Daughter
by amother
12 Thu, Jun 04 2009, 1:57 pm View latest post
Friend making a Bas Mitzvah on Shabbos Tisha B'av
by amother
6 Mon, Jun 08 2015, 12:56 pm View latest post
by egam
Bar Mitzvah - Bas Mitzvah
by amother
9 Tue, May 23 2006, 12:22 pm View latest post
Bas mitzvah
by amother
4 Mon, Nov 07 2016, 6:20 pm View latest post
Bas mitzvah
by amother
7 Thu, Dec 08 2016, 12:09 am View latest post

Jump to:  

Report offensive ad