Kriah issues 3rd grader

amother

Black

Wed, Jan 18 2017, 12:09 pm

Hi, I am wondering if anyone can help me figure out the root of my daughters kriah problems. She is an extremely intelligent girl, who has always been above reading level for English, however when it comes to Hebrew we just cannot get her to read fluently.
I am at my wits end, we tried everything, she is reading at a 1st grade level , abt 40 sylabyls a minute. I have taken her to various professionals and they suggested starting from the beginning, since her Alef Bais is slow. We did this over the summer, and saw no results. Now they are saying we need to spend more time on each letter. I am hesitant to start another round of tutoring, she is really beginning to resent it.

I am wondering if it is a processing thing, maybe the letters just dont come to her brain quickly enough?

HELP

Teomima

Thu, Jan 19 2017, 2:59 pm

amother wrote:

Did you check her eyes with a vision specialist not a regular eye doctor?

This. Look into getting an evaluation with a COVD certified Developmental Optometrist. It could be vision related (visual skills, like eye-teaming, which is something completely separate from glasses-related vision), or perceptual (ask if they evaluate for visual perceptual skills as well). If you're in Israel I can give you specific recommendations.

anonymrs

Thu, Jan 19 2017, 6:04 pm

If she reads English well so well, I would say it's probably not a vision problem.

When did you first notice that her kriah is not progressing on grade level? How is her accuracy? What kind of tutoring has she been getting?

seeker

Thu, Jan 19 2017, 9:01 pm

I disagree that the ability in English would rule out a visual flaw - get it checked out. English and Hebrew reading are visually very different. Also, the child's familiarity with the English language is going to help her with the English reading regardless of what the source of difficulty is.

Teomima

Thu, Jan 19 2017, 9:03 pm

anonymrs wrote:

If she reads English well so well, I would say it's probably not a vision problem.

Actually it's specifically because she reads English well I'd suspect a vision issue. Again I'm not suggestion a regular, 20/20 kind of vision issue, rather visual processing. Hebrew and English are VERY different languages in how our brains perceive the visual information they are fed.

Eta: just saw the above post Thumbs Up

amother

Seagreen

Thu, Jan 19 2017, 9:58 pm

Some children find English easier as they can learn the words by sight easier since they carry meaning. In Hebrew however, which is not their native tongue, there is considerable amount of reading words without knowing the meaning. This requires a lot more phonetic decoding.

There's a new online Kriah evaluation at www.torah4children.com/evaluation

It will tell you if there are any phonetic decoding delays specific to Kriah and what they are. I don't think it takes long. Try it out. It doesn't cost anything.

amother

Black

Sun, Jan 22 2017, 7:02 pm

Thank you ladies for your reply. She has been behind mostly since the end of first grade.
Initially I was told that she just needed additional practice, since she is mostly accurate and knows all the rules. However she is slow. We did that throughout 2nd grade. Summer of second we tried to start from Alef Bais again. Now were in third, I waited 2 months for an appointment with a top kriah speciailist ( I am in Lakewood), who sent me to a (regular) eye dr to see if there is a vision problem. So now I am waiting til mid Feb for that appointment Rolling Eyes

.
I'd be interested to hear more about the vision therapy mentioned...

amother

Black

Sun, Jan 22 2017, 7:06 pm

Teomima wrote:

I would be very interested in this but I am in Lakewood..

Ashrei

Sun, Jan 22 2017, 7:24 pm

Our son is in first grade, and we are using Rabbi Rietti's chinuch method with him. The improvements have been phenomenal because they start with his self esteem. It is a huge commitment of time and effort though (we buy the materials and spend time watching the videos, then work with him), but he's having so much success it's unreal. breakthroughchinuch.com Hatzlacha in whatever path your follow!

Teomima

Sun, Jan 22 2017, 7:37 pm

A regular optometrist can help as far as checking if there's a need for glasses. But often they say the number is low and gooses aren't necessary, whereas a developmental optometrist will say the moment there's extra effort on part of the visual system, give glases to take off the pressure.

A regular optometrist is also likely to recommend against vision therapy, but I say there's no hard on at least getting evaluated.

A quick search gave me these results closest to you (I can't vouch personally for any of them though, sorry):

http://locate.covd.org/Search/.....;y=31

Some people consider optometric vision therapy to be controversial, which is rather silly because, when there's a need, it's actually a very logical solution. I can tell you first hand, when there's a real need, it WORKS.

amother

Violet

Sun, Jan 22 2017, 10:35 pm

amother wrote:

I would be very interested in this but I am in Lakewood..

I took 2 children to Dr. Tannen in Hamilton, NJ. One child had AMAZING results, it was unbelievable. We struggled with her for so many years and suddenly, she was a new person. The other child, I did see some improvement, but not enough that it was worth it. But I definitely believe that it's worth a try.

I'm not sure, but I think I heard that he opened an office in Lakewood now.

amother

Black

Mon, Jan 23 2017, 1:15 pm

amother wrote:

Can you tell me more? did the child that received help have issues in English as well?

What is the controversy around vision therapy?

Teomima

Mon, Jan 23 2017, 1:21 pm

amother wrote:

What is the controversy around vision therapy?

People don't understand it, even optometrists. They don't really do more than touch on the subject in school. The only way to get proper training in vision therapy is in a vision therapy office, preferably under the guidance of a COVD board certified developmental optometrist. But it really can work wonders, especially in a frum community, because we place an even greater emphasis on reading than other segments of society.

amother

Blonde

Mon, Jan 23 2017, 2:14 pm

I work for an optometrist who prescribes prism glasses just for this reason.
Yes there is a lot or controversy with them but I have seem many children being helped by them.
My own kids wear them.
It doesn't help everyone but it sounds like in this case it would.

Let me know if you want his number.

mha3484

Mon, Jan 23 2017, 2:19 pm

I was a child with a lot of attention issues. Be aware that getting a child to do the exercises after a long day of school is not easy. My mother tried it with me 20 years ago and said it was total torture for both of us.

amother

Black

Mon, Jan 23 2017, 4:41 pm

amother wrote:

Yes , please

seeker

Mon, Jan 23 2017, 8:03 pm

amother wrote:

Can you tell me more? did the child that received help have issues in English as well?

What is the controversy around vision therapy?

I could be wrong but I think the "controversy," as with many such controversies, is really a breakdown in communication and understanding.

Stage 1: Child or several children with learning difficulties is/are identified with a visual convergence/tracking/muscle deficit, receives vision therapy, and becomes a better student since visual tasks are now easier.
Stage 2: Parents/teachers begin to rave that vision therapy amazingly solved their learning problems. Schools/parents/teachers/friends begin to recommend it to everyone.
Stage 3: Not everyone's learning issues are in fact related to visual issues, and some children who do have visual issues also have other issues that need to be resolved before their performance improves significantly. Thus, many people, having heard that vision therapy is a miracle, try vision therapy and do not receive a miracle.
Stage 4: Science/statistics cynics look at a collection of all results together without analyzing any individual, and conclude that vision therapy is not effective because many people did not receive their miracle.
Stage 5: People who did have good experiences disagree.
Thus, we have a controversy.