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Forum -> Relationships -> Giving Gifts
No gift after birth
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Wed, Jan 25 2017, 7:43 am
sourstix wrote:
Op anytime you come with expectations your bound to look like your SIL. Do you see why? And how immature this is? This is her first child. She will learn a lot. She must or it won't be good.

When were that young we think the world owes us something. Entitlement. As parents we need to teach our kids on the contrary. That everything we get is a gift. When we don't. We fail to teach them this. And this is the result.

It's so upsetting to see someone married with this attitude.

Remember no one owes you anything.

This has nothing with a parent being financial abusive. Parents aren't mechuyav to give us anything after marriage. If they promised and don't deliver then that's a different story. But then again I would never go by that. I would never rely on my parents. It's foolish. Immature. Jmho.

If you were old enough to decide whom to marry then you need to support yourself. There's nothing wrong with parents helping. But coming with expectations is what gives this whole new problem.


Huh? Did you read my post?
I will spell it out clearer.
Me and my brother belong to very different crowds.
My dh and I have removed ourselves from the mainstream yeshivish society. We expect nothing from any of our parents. We say thank you for whatever we do get.
We both work hard and are trying to become financially independent
But I can still recognize that my sil who is doing the typical yeshivish/kollel/dependency thing is having a hard time
Why that makes me like her I have no idea...
Your post is an insult to an independent yet struggling woman like me. Who has chosen this path when I could have very well chosen to become another "supported" couple
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 25 2017, 9:09 am
sourstix wrote:
Op anytime you come with expectations your bound to look like your SIL. Do you see why? And how immature this is? This is her first child. She will learn a lot. She must or it won't be good.

When were that young we think the world owes us something. Entitlement. As parents we need to teach our kids on the contrary. That everything we get is a gift. When we don't. We fail to teach them this. And this is the result.

It's so upsetting to see someone married with this attitude.

Remember no one owes you anything.

This has nothing with a parent being financial abusive. Parents aren't mechuyav to give us anything after marriage. If they promised and don't deliver then that's a different story. But then again I would never go by that. I would never rely on my parents. It's foolish. Immature. Jmho.

If you were old enough to decide whom to marry then you need to support yourself. There's nothing wrong with parents helping. But coming with expectations is what gives this whole new problem.


Did you read OP's post?
What's up with the misplaced personal attacks?
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amother
Blush


 

Post Wed, Jan 25 2017, 9:20 am
All of you that are that are saying that parents don't owe a married child anything could be technically right but the two points to consider are if the inlaws are financially well off and it would make no big difference to them to give the new parents a $100 but just wont can't you see where that would feel hurtful? When you give someone a two dollar tip it could be of no significance to you but immensely appreciated by your grocery delivery man.
The other thing to consider is why wouldn't rich in laws buy their dil a gift? Why not? I can't wrap my head around this. Of course they don't owe them anything but why wouldn't they be excited for a new grandchild and happy for their child. How are they expressing their joy and love? Through gifts? Through caring action? Which one of the five love language are they using? That's what is very hurtful not the gift but the lack of love. The community norm is to send a gift then so then the finnacly abusive parents thinks ok no problem what's the cheapest I can get away with. A truly poor but loving parent would think I can't afford more than a pack of wipes but surely I can offer them a bracha or share my excitement or my time or my help. It's the attitude that's hurful.
Unfortunately the lack of love is the reality that this new mother is facing and the sooner she makes peace with it the better off she'll be.
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Notsobusy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 25 2017, 9:29 am
amother wrote:
Huh? Did you read my post?
I will spell it out clearer.
Me and my brother belong to very different crowds.
My dh and I have removed ourselves from the mainstream yeshivish society. We expect nothing from any of our parents. We say thank you for whatever we do get.
We both work hard and are trying to become financially independent
But I can still recognize that my sil who is doing the typical yeshivish/kollel/dependency thing is having a hard time
Why that makes me like her I have no idea...
Your post is an insult to an independent yet struggling woman like me. Who has chosen this path when I could have very well chosen to become another "supported" couple


Your post is an insult to an independent yet struggling yeshivish/kollel/non-dependency woman like me. And rest assured, there are many more like me, we might not be the ones everyone talks about, but we live our quiet happy lives here in kollel town. We expect nothing from any of our parents and we also say thank you for whatever we do get.

And I can also understand why she's having a hard time with this, she's young, she's postpartum, but I have a problem with her father trying to baby her. He would do her a much bigger favor by treating her like the adult she is and helping her understand that this is life. He can even give her a gift instead of your parents, I'm not sure why only the inlaws are expected to give a gift, but he should be clear that it's from him because he feels bad. He should not be playing games.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 25 2017, 9:50 am
Some interesting points in this thread.

I happen to have grown up with very wealthy grandparents on one side, who gave little by way of gifts, and not-very-wealthy grandparents on the other side, who showered us with love, gifts (what they could afford), etc....(it's ironic that my not-wealthy grandparents are the ones that scraped together an amount of $$ with the birth of each grandchild, that grew to be the down payment for my house....)

My parents always gave us the message that our grandparents loved us - even the ones who we rarely saw (they lived in Europe) and rarely sent gifts. My parents explained to us that they were holocaust survivors who had undergone much trauma. They had a philosophy in life of spending as little money as possible, and they were entitled to those choices.

Even if OP's parents are not war survivors, they may have had other life circumstances that lead them to the choices they are making - being people of means who do not necessarily gift their children.

It's up to OP's SIL and her husband to grow up and face who their inlaws are, and what the reality of their relationship will be with them, gifts not withstanding. I think the girls' father babying them falsely will not help anything in the long-run, and can seriously backfire. In the short run, it's depriving them of the opportunity to grow up.
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Wed, Jan 25 2017, 12:16 pm
glutenless wrote:
Your post is an insult to an independent yet struggling yeshivish/kollel/non-dependency woman like me. And rest assured, there are many more like me, we might not be the ones everyone talks about, but we live our quiet happy lives here in kollel town. We expect nothing from any of our parents and we also say thank you for whatever we .

I'm sorry you were insulted. Although I have no idea why. We are probably quite similar to you.
I work really hard. My husband learns seriously. He does not learn full time anymore since we can't manage on one salary.
We value the individuals who choose to live a simple lifestyle and stay in full time learning with all the sacrifices.
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musicmom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 25 2017, 12:45 pm
I had a really hard time reading about your sister in law's father expecting this to come from you. I understand your sister in law is post partum and a stretchy is not emotionally enough of a gift. I don't really think it's about a stroller, either, as you can get really nice ones on craigslist locally, and you don't even need that, just a baby wearer backpack or a moby wrap for starters. I think the father in law had good intentions but it is not really appropriate to involve you in that way. You should certainly feel comfortable explaining any background information to your sister in law, but nobody is really going to change anybody else, and the sooner everybody understands each other the better.
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amother
Seafoam


 

Post Wed, Jan 25 2017, 2:57 pm
I hope you can glean some insight from my experience. I never had much expectations when it came to gifts as my parents were never well off and were not big gift givers (birthdays, graduation etc). But they are generous by nature. They were going through a particularly rough time during the time I got married and through the birth of my first two children. My in-laws, on the other hand are relatively well off and spend money. However my fil could be cheap and they are not particularly fancy. I was actually glad about that because my parents wouldn't be pressured to make a fancy wedding. I got a basic bracelet at vort and was really happy about it, and I didn't have much expectations. I didn't get candlesticks and that was totally fine with it and got a stand of pearls that looks like it with 40$. But I was thrilled with my chassan and these were superficial silly things and I genuinely didn't care. Until. Until my in-laws would talk a big game and then majority under perform. For example, the diamond ring. I would have been fine with a CZ, but I heard weeks of talks about the big search for the diamond and how they are really sophisticated when it comes to jewelry. The grandmother getting involved and everyone making fun of her aide, how she has no taste and was looking at cheap rings etc. My Sil, who is my age and was in shidduchim was constantly talking about how she would be devastated of she got a diamond under 4 karats. And she was in charge of the ring purchasing. This made my expectations grow and it was a huge let down when I did not get a beautiful ring, but actually a very flawed diamond (flaws visible at a glance) in a very ugly and impracticable setting. I promised not to get let down again. And I was fine no candle sticks and cheap pearls etc. I was even fine when fil informed us that even though he agreed to split the costs of the wedding and setting up our apartment, he doesn't plan on giving us half the money for the bedroom set I found on Clearence. (I worked really hard during the engagement and did not buy one other piece of furniture. Everything else was second hand or from a gemach and I only agreed to buy a new bedroom set because my father insisted and I saw that it pained him if he felt I was being shortchanged, and my in-laws were talking about the furniture they bought for their other child only a few years back.) So, that's where the money received from our wedding went. Then a few weeks after our wedding, we were informed that the credit card dh was using for the past few years in Israel for yeshiva and for wedding prep was our debt and we had to pay it off. Poor dh was terrified of many reaction to that so I felt I had to be super duper positive about it. You would think I would have learned my lesson, but no. During my pregnancy, my in-laws were super duper excited and were talking about how their other mechutanim "robbed" them of setting up their grandchild's nursery, but now they would finally get a chance. So when my parents offered to buy us a crib, I suggested they buy us a carriage and I chose a 200$ stroller so as not to overburden them. In the meantime my husband and I searched clearance centers to find a cheap, good quality, crib because I already understood that my in-laws were not going to be spending the thousands of dollars they were making it sound like they were planning to. But when dh called to tell them we found a beautiful set for under 400$, he was told to buy a crib from Wal-Mart for 130$. We had no money at the time, and someone offered us a second hand crib and we took that route. I made sure this did not effect our relationship and we had a decent relationship for a number of years. (It is now rocky due to totally unrelated reasons. Mainly BPD Sil and mil and destructive and malicious behaviors on their part, but totally unrelated to gifts our money etc.)

This is what I feel you can take away from this. 1. My sils made things worse by playing up expectations that I didn't have in the first place. It doesn't seem like you are doing that, but I would have appreciated being made aware of the situation. (To be dan lekaf zechus, dh's bpd sister was the only one married at the time and was super spoiled, and did get all the promised goodies, so dh didn't imagine it could be that bad and he too feel for the hype).
2. If my parents would have pulled off some kind of shtick like op's sil's father is trying, and I ever found out, I would be super mad at everyone involved and even more resentful of in-laws.

If you can, and want to, you can buy them the carriage. But it should be from you. And, if you have the right type of relationship with your sil you should have an honest discussion about your parents and what she should and should not expect. Your brother might not realize it himself. I think dh was more hurt and shocked by my in-laws treatment than I was.

Also, I don't think it's ridiculous that she was expecting a large gift. I'm from a Chassidish home in a yeshivish community and dh is from a "just plain frum" home that was part of both yeshivish and m.o. (both upper class/professional and oot plain type) circles and it's universal for grandparents in all these communities to buy large gifts for the first child.
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