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-> In the News
allthingsblue
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Tue, Jan 31 2017, 8:34 am
ora_43 wrote: | Wasn't the clarification basically also "we meant Jews, even if we didn't say it"? |
It was more like, "the holocaust affected a lot of groups, not just Jews."
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Laiya
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Tue, Jan 31 2017, 8:46 am
Actually, Priebus said this (watch the interview, don't just read a summary):
ora_43 wrote: |
Wasn't the clarification basically also "we meant Jews, even if we didn't say it"? |
and Hope Hicks said this:
allthingsblue wrote: | It was more like, "the holocaust affected a lot of groups, not just Jews." |
It's still very troubling, but also odd that they have different messages.
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Raisin
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Tue, Jan 31 2017, 8:50 am
My first thought is they wanted to avoid mentioning gay people. Once you mention Jews, you might feel you have to mention all the other people who suffered, one group of which was homosexuals.
Last edited by Raisin on Tue, Jan 31 2017, 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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ora_43
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Tue, Jan 31 2017, 8:55 am
JoyInTheMorning wrote: | Yes, Simple1. Framing the Holocaust as a terrible event that happened to lots of people is a well-known white supremacist trope. According to that narrative, the Jews were one of many groups targeted by the Nazis. That's a false narrative; only Jews and possibly Roma (gypsies) were targeted for complete extinction and on top of that, because of their ethnicity.
It is hard for me to believe that Orthodox Jews are okay with the WH's statement. |
Gay people, disabled people, and mentally ill people were also targeted for extinction. It's just that being gay, or disabled, or mentally ill doesn't work like that... Still, that was the thinking AFAIK.
I'm not sure if I'm OK with the statement but I do think it's tricky. If I were Roma I don't think I'd like hearing the Holocaust portrayed as having happened to "Jews and others." If one group is named, they should all be.
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Amarante
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Tue, Jan 31 2017, 10:40 am
The Final Solution was specifically aimed at exterminating the Jews.
This is part and parcel of Bannnons and the altrights denial of the holocaust and the six million Jews who died.
There are other awful genocides and crimes against humanity but Holocaust Remembrance Day was specifically set aside to commemorate the Jews killed as part of the the Final Solution not the gays, romas, resistance fighters, members of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade or others who died in the fight against nazism and facism.
To go against what every other President has done without even a statement is telling. But I am just sitting back and wondering how far Trump and group can go before they manage to shock all but the most blinded if the world manages to survive a Security Council with no experts but People like Bannon and the ilk on it
Last edited by Amarante on Tue, Jan 31 2017, 11:02 am; edited 2 times in total
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SixOfWands
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Tue, Jan 31 2017, 10:58 am
ora_43 wrote: | Wasn't the clarification basically also "we meant Jews, even if we didn't say it"? |
No. The clarification was we don't want to refer to Jews specifically, because the Holocaust affected so many groups of people, we shouldn't highlight any specific one.
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SixOfWands
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Tue, Jan 31 2017, 11:01 am
Raisin wrote: | My first thought is they wanted to avoid mentioning gay people. Once you mention Jews, you might feel you have to mention all the other people who suffered, one group of which was homosexuals. |
Actually, Trump just stated that workplace protections for LGBT people will remain in effect. So it can't be that.
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stillgrowing
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Tue, Jan 31 2017, 11:07 am
I read that even Ronald Reagan's speech writer was astonished that Trump's Holocaust statement did not directly reference Jews and antisemitism. So, we are not just talking abt liberal democrats.
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Amarante
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Tue, Jan 31 2017, 11:07 am
SixOfWands wrote: | Actually, Trump just stated that workplace protections for LGBT people will remain in effect. So it can't be that. |
I don't think even Trump is prepared to overturn the recent Supreme Court decision which made s-xual orientation a "protected class" under the constitution which means that laws depriving of equal protection are subject to strict protection are subject to strict scrutiny.
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Raisin
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Tue, Jan 31 2017, 11:09 am
Amarante wrote: | The Final Solution was specifically aimed at exterminating the Jews.
This is part and parcel of Bannnons and the altrights denial of the holocaust and the six million Jews who died.
There are other awful genocides and crimes against humanity but Holocaust Remembrance Day was specifically set aside to commemorate the Jews killed as part of the the Final Solution not the gays, romas, resistance fighters, members of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade or others who died in the fight against nazism and facism.
To go against what every other President has done without even a statement is telling. But I am just sitting back and wondering how far Trump and group can go before they manage to shock all but the most blinded if the world manages to survive a Security Council with no experts but People like Bannon and the ilk on it |
Interesting, the Holocaust memorial event held annually in my city (attended by government ministers, head of state etc but arranged by a Jewish person) makes a point of mentioning all the other groups who suffered, although certainly it is mostly about Jewish people.
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Amarante
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Tue, Jan 31 2017, 11:17 am
A posting from the Stormtrooper which is a Nazi website which is part of the altright and which was delighted at the first explicit exclusion of the mention of Jews/Anti Semitism in an American President's Statement
Jews Triggered Into Mindless Rage at Trump Holocaust Memorial Statement” (no link) explains why they are so
Organized Jewry is frothing at the mouth at Donald Trump’s faux pas on “Holocaust memorial day.”
The political “misstep”? Equating the suffering of all innocent people in World War II with the sufferink of Jews, which we all are supposed to know is different because Jews are a superior race.
This is the first time in history the President of the United States has made no mention of Jews, anti-Semitism, or the science fiction Zionist folklore about ovens and gas chambers so prominent in (((Hollywood))) narratives.
Trump’s statement is obviously not pro-Nazi, but he is still exceeding expectations in pushing back against Jewish supremacy. The vast majority of people in America, who are generally ignorant regarding the truth of World War II, will see nothing wrong with Trump’s statement, but the kneejerk Jewish reaction exposes them once again.
The first step of Holocaust Denial is explaining that nothing like six million Jews died — like maybe a couple here or there, by accident. The second step of Holocaust Denial is posting at Stormfront or becoming president of the United States through the Magic of Memes! Specifically memes about putting Jews in ovens.
And there you have President Steve Bannon’s little gift to his “alt-right” pals — the same ones for whom he said his “news” site, Breitbart.com was the premier platform.
Read more at http://wonkette.com/611067/naz.....FK.99
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ora_43
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Tue, Jan 31 2017, 11:19 am
Amarante wrote: | There are other awful genocides and crimes against humanity but Holocaust Remembrance Day was specifically set aside to commemorate the Jews killed as part of the the Final Solution not the gays, romas, resistance fighters, members of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade or others who died in the fight against nazism and facism. |
No, it was very explicitly set aside to commemorate all people murdered in the Holocaust. Jews and non-Jews.
Yes, it's specifically those killed for who they were, and not those who died fighting nazism.
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Fox
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Tue, Jan 31 2017, 8:10 pm
This is a no-win situation. In the past, presidents have been excoriated by various groups because they didn't include specific mentions of other groups targeted by the Nazis. Now people are upset because all references to specific groups were removed. The ADL cries foul; the WJC claims the ADL is crying wolf.
This is precisely where identity politics leads and why so many of us reject the hate it engenders.
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