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Why is Hashem smiling on people who treat others shabbily?



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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 12:34 pm
NO I dont think Im overly sensitive.

Before a Shidduch materialized with DD, I asked Machatonim if they want to discuss money. They said "no" and that they'll be happy with whatever we give. Then shortly after the engagement, I got a call from SIL's father saying he wants a specific number of years support. I was shocked that he changed his tune. I suspect they didnt want to have this discussion before the engagement because they didnt want to commit to anything themselves.

We ended up doing everything we were asked and totally supported for the amount of years he asked, even though I asked to discuss money obligations before the engagement and they said its not necessary. This demand came after tyhe engagement which was a shock. I knew SIL is a learning boy, and they expected support, but I was taken aback at the call with the demand, AFTER the engagement.

Then after the agreed upon number of years, they demanded a down payment for a house that I never agreed to, it wasnt ever brought up, and they got very ugly about it. They had relatives of theirs call and use bad language, calling us names.

Again, eventually we came through with a full down-payment.

I really dislike these Machatonim. and what bothers me a lot is the fact that they married off all their children very well and have amazing Mazel with their kids.

Some mean hearted people have the best Mazel.

Why is Hashem smiling on people who treat others shabbily?

No I dont know everything that goes on in their and their children's lives, but I know enough to know that their kids married well and are giving their parents huge Nachas.

At the same time some of the nicest people I know are going through such Tzaros with kids and health issues.

Yes, we dont understand Hashem's cheshbonos, but how does one make peace with this?

Had they not caused us such huge heartache and pain throughout the years, I wouldnt be thinking so deeply into this.

SIL stil has a "se kumpt mir" attitude even though theyre married more than 10 years. Now hes asking for money for a house extension and a Simcha, because "all parents do this for their children".

A difficult situation that goes on and on.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 12:43 pm
Sorry your going thru this! What I don't understand is how can finances not be discussed ahead of time? I realize the other side said no need to discuss, but even so, what was the plan going in when thinking about 5 years later? 10 years later? 25 years later? As SIL sits and learns and the family grows, HOW WILL THE BILLS BE PAID? Either way, what happens if you simply say that you don't have the money for a down payment? Btw, who will be paying the mortgage on this new house even assuming you would give the down payment? This story saddens me.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 12:54 pm
OP here. SIL was short term learner. He learned a few years. But even so, with a few kids even though both are working hard, they are always short money.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 1:04 pm
I'm confused as to why your SIL's parents would be so involved in the couple's finances that, after several years of marriage, they are demanding a down payment on behalf of their son and your daughter.
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 1:06 pm
My sister had an older girl at home. A shidduch came up that had alot of potential. The other side demanded 'life support'. My sister wouldnt hear from it and let the shiduch go.

My sister is well off bh. But how could she commit to such a thing. Who knows what haskem has instore for us...

The other side was saying but they get married young husband sits snd learns, they have baby after baby who said the girl will be able to work...

What has this world come to...
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 1:09 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
I'm confused as to why your SIL's parents would be so involved in the couple's finances that, after several years of marriage, they are demanding a down payment on behalf of their son and your daughter.


Down payment demand came after he left Kollel and was given. Now Machatonim are no longer involved that I can prove, but the heartache of their nasty demanding in the past lingers. Now its only SIL asking but if we dont give what were asked, he isnt a happy camper.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 2:11 pm
OP, I wish I could hug your posts.
My immediate reaction was, this is covered under the age-old conundrum of "tzaddik v'ra lo, etc." I still didn't go to that thread because I assumed that there was enough pain behind your question, I wasn't going to be flippant.
I think you need some IRL support and counseling on how to deal with this couple. You need to help them become independent, with chochma. You are not responsible for their shalom bayis but you will have to proceed carefully. Hatzlacha!
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LittleDucky




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 2:22 pm
Oy.
To answer your main question all I can say is we have no clue. Tzaddik vra Lo and all that. We don't know truly what "Mazal" they have and what their life is like behind closed doors.

About your SIL- my first instinct is- just say no. No more giving in to his demands.
What do you mean "he isn't a happy camper"? Mature adults don't pout when their requests aren't met. What does he do? He Needs to find a way to solve his own financial issues. Why can't they save? A simcha is a foreseeable event. An addition to the house is a luxury they should plan for. Who has that kind of money sitting around without a plan for it? You have retirement needs too...
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 2:23 pm
This sounds like a very difficult and unpleasant situation, and entitled behavior is never pretty. But, I do think it might be time for you and your DH to examine your contribution to the current state of affairs. It is not your responsibility to keep your SIL happy. His happiness is his responsibility and if he needs money to be happy, he needs to go out and earn it. If you give in to his extortion, recognize that it is a choice you are making and accept responsibility for enabling his behavior.

I agree that your choices are all difficult and you may not be able to avoid unpleasantness altogether - which is something you will have to accept - but it is up to you as to which unpleasant you choose: you can give him money and possibly make him happy temporarily, but also very possibly not at all, but be miserable and resentful and financially depleted yourselves while simultaneously setting the stage for the next demand when the money and the happiness run out OR you can say no, keep your money and self respect and let him be unhappy if he chooses to be. You can also choose to give him the money happily if you are so inclined. At this point, though, you can't blame your choices on anyone else. You don't need Hashem to come to your defense; you need to stand up for yourselves.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 2:44 pm
How is this son in law giving his parents nachas? He sounds spoilt and entitled.

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this.
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amother
Pink


 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 2:46 pm
Maybe this keeps happening because it is all about you.

Hashem wants you to stand up to them and say No! But you keep saying Yes! So Hashem is trying to make it easier for you to pass the test by making it harder as harder to say Yes! He is making you feel how utterly unfair it is, not to hurt you, ch"v, but to help you grow.

This time you are reaching out. This time you might pass this test.

(OTOH I could be totally wrong. Just something to think about.)
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Queen6




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 2:53 pm
.1 How do you know Hashem is smiling on them? Just because they have mazel with their kids shidduchim and they get money?!
.2 In the nicest of ways - you are at fault too - why didn't you just say no?! Why don't you say no now?! Are you not confident enough in your relationship that its only based on what you give? you should have demanded a sit down before, you did not have to say yes to their support plan and house plan... and you can say no to their demands now.
YOU are making a choice.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 3:09 pm
amother wrote:
OP here. SIL was short term learner. He learned a few years. But even so, with a few kids even though both are working hard, they are always short money.


Now I'm even more confused. If SIL is supposed to make a living, why are you first in line to pick up the slack if he's coming up short? Wouldn't the natural order be that he go to his own parents first? Why is this your achrayis?
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rimon613




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 7:07 pm
You don't owe them anything. They are obligated to observe the mitzva of kibbud orim. And your in laws have no right to ask you to support their son. According to the Torah, the man has an obligation to support the family so if your son in law can't support your daughter like the Torah obligates him too then if he wants to ask anyone for money then if anything he should ask his parents. They have no right to demand money from you.
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Cmon be nice




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 7:20 pm
If you say no to SIL will that cause SB problems with DD? If so it may be a catch 22 situation
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amother
Wine


 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 8:00 pm
I feel very bad for you. It's hard to deal with mechutonim. My aunt is having issues with her mechutonim now. My aunt lives in NJ and the boy lives in five towns. The boys mom wants the wedding in five towns because she wants her friends there. What on earth?! And then they had a nerve to ask the girl to pay for the entire wedding!
B"h your child is married. My father is 55 and has no grandchildren or any married children. So count your blessings! All mechutonim make fights.
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amother
Floralwhite


 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 8:20 pm
A few years ago when dh and I wanted to buy our second home (in laws and parents helped us with down payment for first and we pay the mortgage), dh went to my father to ask for help with that. My father offered it as a LOAN. It's a 2nd home not a need, kind of like your dd's addition. Dh at the time was waiting for some business investments to pan out. He set up a payment plan with my father how to return the money within a certain time frame. Had we not had the money to pay back we would have sold the second home to do so. Everyone came out happy. We had the help when we needed it at the time and still felt independent when we paid it all back and that home was truly ours and earned.

Would you offer the $ to sil as a loan and not a gift? It might make him think twice about whether the addition is a need or a want. Also perhaps he'd make a more low key simcha knowing he'd eventually need to foot the bill. Also, when someone is still repaying a loan they may not come so fast to ask for money again for other things. You as a parent might feel better about that, not saying straight out NO but enabling them to have what they want but accepting responsibility with the costs.
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