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Day Without Immigrants- In Your Community?
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Rosemarie









  


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 9:42 am
saw50st8 wrote:
I'll be honest, I didn't notice a difference at all. My grocery store still delivered my groceries, my coworkers were her (there are 15,000 employees, so I didn't take a poll). The strike had no known effect on me.

Yup, I didn't even know about this strike until today. I got pizza delivered and a prescription from my pharmacy delivered, both by apparently immigrant workers.
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amother




Periwinkle


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 9:53 am
Squishy wrote:
I am glad you are not a policy planner. So all the people who don't pay taxes are contributing because they are enhancing our economy? How is the government supposed to function with people self-selecting not to pay taxes? You also need to draw a line someplace where you stop accepting people because there are literally BILLIONS of people who are in desperate straits.

You also stereotype all immigrants as working in minimum wage job off the books. This is nonsense.

DH told me that yesterday of the 50 workers, 21 showed up. All the immigrant bosses showed up. They understood that the protest accomplished little but caused the guys to lose a payday. It is interesting that the successful guys went to work.

I saw this at my nail salon and the exotic green grocer I shop at in the non-frum area. They were open. If my cleaning lady didn't show when she was scheduled, I would get rid of her. [I find extra projects for her to do because she complains she needs hours. She owes me to be dependable.]

There are intelligent educated immigrants both of the legal and illegal type. They don't work for minimum wage. They don't care for this protest.

It is interesting that no one on this site, and we have immigrants and spouses of immigrants, reported they protested yesterday.

The undocumented ones don't really have a way to pay taxes now, do they? They are still enhancing our economy. I'm not saying everyone should decide to stop paying taxes but they are not documented so have no way of doing it.

And you're right, not all immigrants are illegal or off the books. I was specifically referring to those though.

And if you'd get rid of an otherwise good and reliable cleaning lady I'd say you're an idiot. Especially at this time of year. I need her more than she needs me. She can have several other jobs lined up if I got rid of her. I happened to cancel on my own anyway. I offered to find a replacement but she told me she doesn't want to work on Thursday. That was before I heard about the strike. All I can say is good for her. I'd be in trouble if she was deported.

I know intelligent educated immigrants that are here legally. I haven't seen them since I heard of this but based on past conversations I'm sure they support this. They also don't work for minimum wage.

I'm not an immigrant or even the child of an immigrant so I can't comment on the last part.
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zigi









  


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 10:02 am
I think that it a certain kind of worker, low skilled etc, cleaning ladies, dishwashers, delivery people etc. the ones that went to school cna etc went to work
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Squishy









  


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 10:23 am
amother wrote:
The undocumented ones don't really have a way to pay taxes now, do they? They are still enhancing our economy. I'm not saying everyone should decide to stop paying taxes but they are not documented so have no way of doing it.

And you're right, not all immigrants are illegal or off the books. I was specifically referring to those though.

And if you'd get rid of an otherwise good and reliable cleaning lady I'd say you're an idiot. Especially at this time of year. I need her more than she needs me. She can have several other jobs lined up if I got rid of her. I happened to cancel on my own anyway. I offered to find a replacement but she told me she doesn't want to work on Thursday. That was before I heard about the strike. All I can say is good for her. I'd be in trouble if she was deported.

I know intelligent educated immigrants that are here legally. I haven't seen them since I heard of this but based on past conversations I'm sure they support this. They also don't work for minimum wage.

I'm not an immigrant or even the child of an immigrant so I can't comment on the last part.


If course even illegal immigrants have ways of paying taxes. Are you kidding me? Do you really think this? Our government is a little smarter than this. They choose not to pay. That is different.

The intelligent educated immigrants I know are not supporting this. They think it is idiotic. But again, they are successful.

If my cleaning lady doesn't show up when scheduled, then she is not reliable. Is she? As to me being an idiot, my house is in great shape for Pesach already. All that is left to do is my dining room and kitchen. I could easily do this myself.

Did you not read the part where I give her extra hours and make work? I could do with way less help. In return, she has better demonstrate loyalty to me. I guess she rather work in an organized clean household then run from job to job doing back breaking cleaning. Even immigrants can figure this out. (That's sarcastic.)

I have a major problem with the immigrants who do patient care and left the patients stranded. It is disgusting. Spring Valley has a large Haitian population who often work taking care of vulnerable people. They were demonstrating yesterday instead of doing their job. It is repulsive to leave handicapped elders unable to care for themselves. Once you accept a job like that, you have a moral responsibility to show up.

If my toilets don't get cleaned one day, that is not a big deal. If vulnerable bed ridden elders get bedsores or get anxious because their routine is disputed, that is shameful.
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amother




Periwinkle


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 10:31 am
Squishy wrote:
If course even illegal immigrants have ways of paying taxes. Are you kidding me? Do you really think this? Our government is a little smarter than this. They choose not to pay. That is different.

The intelligent educated immigrants I know are not supporting this. They think it is idiotic. But again, they are successful.

If my cleaning lady doesn't show up when scheduled, then she is not reliable. Is she? As to me being an idiot, my house is in great shape for Pesach already. All that is left to do is my dining room and kitchen. I could easily do this myself.

Did you not read the part where I give her extra hours and make work? I could do with way less help. In return, she has better demonstrate loyalty to me. I guess she rather work in an organized clean household then run from job to job doing back breaking cleaning. Even immigrants can figure this out. (That's sarcastic.)

I have a major problem with the immigrants who do patient care and left the patients stranded. It is disgusting. Spring Valley has a large Haitian population who often work taking care of vulnerable people. They were demonstrating yesterday instead of doing their job. It is repulsive to leave handicapped elders unable to care for themselves. Once you accept a job like that, you have a moral responsibility to show up.

If my toilets don't get cleaned one day, that is not a big deal. If vulnerable bed ridden elders get bedsores or get anxious because their routine is disputed, that is shameful.

I'm an intelligent educated non immigrant and I support this.

And it's a shame that it came to this. Immigrants are very much needed here. It's sad that in part, it left vulnerable people without their necessary aid. That proves their point though. They are needed.
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SixOfWands









  


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 10:32 am
amother wrote:
The undocumented ones don't really have a way to pay taxes now, do they? They are still enhancing our economy. I'm not saying everyone should decide to stop paying taxes but they are not documented so have no way of doing it.


I'm not sure why you think that undocumented aliens don't pay taxes. They pay sales tax, of course. About 1/3 of undocumented immigrants are homeowners, so they pay property tax. About half pay income tax. And 70% pay in to Social Security ... which they're not eligible to receive.
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amother




Periwinkle


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 10:37 am
SixOfWands wrote:
I'm not sure why you think that undocumented aliens don't pay taxes. They pay sales tax, of course. About 1/3 of undocumented immigrants are homeowners, so they pay property tax. About half pay income tax. And 70% pay in to Social Security ... which they're not eligible to receive.

I was specifically referring to income tax. Didn't realize they could. Figured they'd be outing themselves by documenting their income.
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Squishy









  


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 11:15 am
amother wrote:
I'm an intelligent educated non immigrant and I support this.

And it's a shame that it came to this. Immigrants are very much needed here. It's sad that in part, it left vulnerable people without their necessary aid. That proves their point though. They are needed.


You support deserting bed ridden patients?

They didn't change anyone's mind in the slightest. They just disputed the vulnerable.
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gp2.0









  


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 11:45 am
amother wrote:
I was specifically referring to income tax. Didn't realize they could. Figured they'd be outing themselves by documenting their income.


I never realized this either. Just looked it up and apparently, the IRS provides tax ID numbers to people who aren't citizens and don't have social security numbers. It's officially meant to be for foreign nationals and that kind of thing, but the most interesting thing I discovered is that the IRS will not release any personal information to any other government agency*, for example the immigration agency, because then less people will pay taxes out of fear of being outed.

IOW, the government as it's set up now would rather not pursue illegal immigrants and would rather encourage them to pay taxes and stay under the radar. Because they want the money.

*Except the dept. of treasury, when pursuing financial crimes.
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amother




Periwinkle


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 11:54 am
Squishy wrote:
You support deserting bed ridden patients?

They didn't change anyone's mind in the slightest. They just disputed the vulnerable.

I support them standing up for themselves and showing how needed they are though it's unfortunate people were left stranded. I'm sure you'd think it better they just sit and watch while their deportation is put in motion and the vulnerable have more time to find replacements. Then they e done their civic duty that failed them. Good ideas.
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wondergirl









  


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 11:59 am
amother wrote:
You keep on saying that. As if yeshiva bochurim are looking for work during the zman. They aren't. Neither are kollel yungerleit. So yes, would be super nice to hire from the community but those people have a full time job already in yeshiva. They aren't looking to do low level work to supplement it.


Not all of the bochurim are capable of sitting and learning all day so it would be better for them if they have a job where they get to be physical and release any pent up frustrations that they may be experiencing. We also have a high amount of at-risk-kids in our communities that would benefit from working so they earn some money and feel good about it enough to keep out of trouble. Any reason why they cant do this kind of work?

amother wrote:
And as far as all the other responses on this thread go--it makes me really sad. Yes, it's the second busiest shopping day in the frum world (apparently Wednesday is the actual busiest shopping day). Their point of doing this is that people should notice. I believe they are a big part of our economy. I can't fathom how people are so heartless about their plight. Yes, there are laws to be followed but I don't think their being here illegally means they don't respect our country. It means that they were in such desperate situations and had to do what it took to get to safety or a manageable lifestyle. I can't fault them for that. The same way I wouldn't fault holocaust survivors for getting here illegally and I wouldn't accuse them of not respecting the law simply because they were doing what they had to to save their lives. I say good for the immigrants standing up for themselves. I'm also impressed they are doing it in a much better way than another group that riots and causes destruction. I think they are making their point civilly and legally. They are valuable. They may not pay taxes but their minimum wages make up for it in terms of repaying our economy. I say shame on any employer who fires an employee over this. I'd like to think I'd pay my immigrants for the day off if I had immigrant workers (besides my cleaning lady I don't and I didn't need her this week). Besides, if someone has many employees who are already trained in it really makes no sense to replace them all at once.

Ironically enough I've heard from several Americans that it's unacceptable that they aren't working on Thursday and they should all be fired. Those same Americans used their first world privilege and called out sick from their own jobs within the past week and saw nothing wrong with that. Go figure.

You believe that illegal aliens are valuable despite the fact that they don't pay taxes?

Okay, lets see how valuable they are and if their untaxed, minimum wages actually "make up for it in terms of repaying our economy":

First, their children go to public schools for free funded by tax dollars which you say they are not paying.

Second, their children can get free esl classes, tutors, therapists, extra-curricular activities, etc all of which are funded by tax dollars which you say they do not pay.

Third, their kids who are born here are eligible for food stamps, welfare, wic, medicaid, and other govt benefits that is all funded by tax dollars which you say they do not pay. And illegal aliens do not have to provide any documents to prove their income in the same way that American citizens are required to do in order to be eligible for govt programs but I guess that is fair considering that they had to break the laws to get into this country and got away with it so they are obviously above the law and should not have to prove their income in order to be eligible for govt benefits like everyone else is required to do.

So lets see: illegal aliens get off the book jobs, free school/tuition, free esl classes, free tutors, free therapists, free extra-curricular activities, free lunches, free food stamps, free wic, free medicaid, etc all of which is funded by tax dollars that they are not paying because they get paid in cash.

But I guess it is good for you, the tax payer, to provide them with all these benefits because you get your groceries delivered and your house cleaned for cheap Rolling Eyes

I guess the illegal aliens are smarter than Jews. They do a little bit of labor and get paid cash for it and then they get everything else provided to them for free so why should they want to leave or become a citizen of this country? And how are they giving anything back when they are taking jobs and tax dollars away from American citizens who need it desperately but can't get it bc they don't qualify for these benefits?
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Reality









  


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 12:33 pm
wondergirl wrote:
I did not say this at all so not sure where you are getting your information from. Perhaps you meant to respond to someone else? Please do not put any words into my mouth, I do not appreciate it.


That is exactly what you said in the first line of your post page three, posted at 10:14 am. Reread the line.
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amother




Khaki


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 12:38 pm
wondergirl wrote:
You believe that illegal aliens are valuable despite the fact that they don't pay taxes?

Okay, lets see how valuable they are and if their untaxed, minimum wages actually "make up for it in terms of repaying our economy":

First, their children go to public schools for free funded by tax dollars which you say they are not paying.

Second, their children can get free esl classes, tutors, therapists, extra-curricular activities, etc all of which are funded by tax dollars which you say they do not pay.

Third, their kids who are born here are eligible for food stamps, welfare, wic, medicaid, and other govt benefits that is all funded by tax dollars which you say they do not pay. And illegal aliens do not have to provide any documents to prove their income in the same way that American citizens are required to do in order to be eligible for govt programs but I guess that is fair considering that they had to break the laws to get into this country and got away with it so they are obviously above the law and should not have to prove their income in order to be eligible for govt benefits like everyone else is required to do.

So lets see: illegal aliens get off the book jobs, free school/tuition, free esl classes, free tutors, free therapists, free extra-curricular activities, free lunches, free food stamps, free wic, free medicaid, etc all of which is funded by tax dollars that they are not paying because they get paid in cash.

But I guess it is good for you, the tax payer, to provide them with all these benefits because you get your groceries delivered and your house cleaned for cheap Rolling Eyes

I guess the illegal aliens are smarter than Jews. They do a little bit of labor and get paid cash for it and then they get everything else provided to them for free so why should they want to leave or become a citizen of this country? And how are they giving anything back when they are taking jobs and tax dollars away from American citizens who need it desperately but can't get it bc they don't qualify for these benefits?


Illegal aliens (at least by NYC welfare requirements) do not receive benefits. If they have dependant children, who were born here and are therefore American citizens, they will receive benefits which are calculated based only upon those American born children.

So, in other words, a single "illegal" mother of 4, who has 1 American born child will NOT be receiving aid for herself and the whole family, but rather for that one child. Welfare (again, I can only speak to NYC regulations) is NOT providing welfare payments to illegals. That mother is considered a "payee" and collects an amount (cash, food, rent) calculated on the basis of the single, legal child. That barely touches the needs of a whole family.

And? That child was born in America. Us entitled to anything an American citizen is entitled to. And in many cases, the parents may even have been legal at the time the child was born.... Visas run out, etc. Not everyone who is considered illegal came into the country illegally.
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amother




Periwinkle


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 12:39 pm
wondergirl wrote:
You believe that illegal aliens are valuable despite the fact that they don't pay taxes?

Okay, lets see how valuable they are and if their untaxed, minimum wages actually "make up for it in terms of repaying our economy":

First, their children go to public schools for free funded by tax dollars which you say they are not paying.

Second, their children can get free esl classes, tutors, therapists, extra-curricular activities, etc all of which are funded by tax dollars which you say they do not pay.

Third, their kids who are born here are eligible for food stamps, welfare, wic, medicaid, and other govt benefits that is all funded by tax dollars which you say they do not pay. And illegal aliens do not have to provide any documents to prove their income in the same way that American citizens are required to do in order to be eligible for govt programs but I guess that is fair considering that they had to break the laws to get into this country and got away with it so they are obviously above the law and should not have to prove their income in order to be eligible for govt benefits like everyone else is required to do.

So lets see: illegal aliens get off the book jobs, free school/tuition, free esl classes, free tutors, free therapists, free extra-curricular activities, free lunches, free food stamps, free wic, free medicaid, etc all of which is funded by tax dollars that they are not paying because they get paid in cash.

But I guess it is good for you, the tax payer, to provide them with all these benefits because you get your groceries delivered and your house cleaned for cheap Rolling Eyes

I guess the illegal aliens are smarter than Jews. They do a little bit of labor and get paid cash for it and then they get everything else provided to them for free so why should they want to leave or become a citizen of this country? And how are they giving anything back when they are taking jobs and tax dollars away from American citizens who need it desperately but can't get it bc they don't qualify for these benefits?

I'm not that familiar with all government programs but from what I understand they aren't eligible for them. The illegal (Jewish) immigrants I know have benefits for their children born here but not for themselves. They get free healthcare because emergency rooms can't legally turn people away but other than that I don't think they get as much as you think they do. If their children are born here they are eligible for benefits just like the rest of those born here because they are citizens
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Squishy









  


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 12:42 pm
amother wrote:
Illegal aliens (at least by NYC welfare requirements) do not receive benefits. If they have dependant children, who were born here and are therefore American citizens, they will receive benefits which are calculated based only upon those American born children.

So, in other words, a single "illegal" mother of 4, who has 1 American born child will NOT be receiving aid for herself and the whole family, but rather for that one child. Welfare (again, I can only speak to NYC regulations) is NOT providing welfare payments to illegals. That mother is considered a "payee" and collects an amount (cash, food, rent) calculated on the basis of the single, legal child. That barely touches the needs of a whole family.


Children are entitled to Medicaid whether they are legal or not. The same is true for schooling. They get food. Up here everyone is entitled to free medical care. We even have Medicaid tourism with people flying in for procedures.
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wondergirl









  


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 12:49 pm
Reality wrote:
That is exactly what you said in the first line of your post page three, posted at 10:14 am. Reread the line.

I reread it. Show me where I said "that the U.S. adopted a five day work week because of discrimination" that you claim I wrote. Thanks.
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amother




Ivory


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 12:53 pm
Squishy wrote:
Children are entitled to Medicaid whether they are legal or not. The same is true for schooling. They get food. Up here everyone is entitled to free medical care. We even have Medicaid tourism with people flying in for procedures.


Illegal immigrants (and for the most part egal immigrants who’ve been here less than five years) aren't elgible for Medicaid. Except in Monsey. Its another exception. In Monsey, illegal immigrants receive Medicaid and Social security. Its well-known to illegals, but not the government. In fact, migrant farm workers from around the country fly to Monsey for free medical care.

Illegals also aren't allowed to get food stamps, although their legal kids are. Again, except Monsey. In Monsey, everyone gets them.
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Squishy









  


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 12:59 pm
amother wrote:
Illegal immigrants (and for the most part egal immigrants who’ve been here less than five years) aren't elgible for Medicaid. Except in Monsey. Its another exception. In Monsey, illegal immigrants receive Medicaid and Social security. Its well-known to illegals, but not the government. In fact, migrant farm workers from around the country fly to Monsey for free medical care.

Illegals also aren't allowed to get food stamps, although their legal kids are. Again, except Monsey. In Monsey, everyone gets them.


What are you talking about?

Do you have any idea at all how local governments are organized? You sound totally clueless. Monsey is a hamlet. They are not giving food stamps to everyone.
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wondergirl









  


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 1:02 pm
amother wrote:
Illegal aliens (at least by NYC welfare requirements) do not receive benefits. If they have dependant children, who were born here and are therefore American citizens, they will receive benefits which are calculated based only upon those American born children.

So, in other words, a single "illegal" mother of 4, who has 1 American born child will NOT be receiving aid for herself and the whole family, but rather for that one child. Welfare (again, I can only speak to NYC regulations) is NOT providing welfare payments to illegals. That mother is considered a "payee" and collects an amount (cash, food, rent) calculated on the basis of the single, legal child. That barely touches the needs of a whole family.

And? That child was born in America. Us entitled to anything an American citizen is entitled to. And in many cases, the parents may even have been legal at the time the child was born.... Visas run out, etc. Not everyone who is considered illegal came into the country illegally.

As I said, children born to illegal aliens in the U.S. are eligible for all govt benefits WITHOUT having to show documents proving the income eligibility of the parents who are illegal. That is not the case for American citizens who do have to prove that they are income eligible to get any govt benefits.

All children of illegal aliens are eligible for free school, esl classes, tutors etc regardless of their immigration status.

Being born in America does not automatically qualify you for food stamps, welfare, medicaid, wic, etc. You have to prove you are eligible based on parental income. Unless you are a child of an illegal alien, then you dont have to prove anything and can get all the govt benefits available just because you were born here.

How much money do you spend on your American born kids for food, health insurance, tuition, tutors, extra curricular activities, etc? Why are you not getting any govt benefits for them for being born in America?
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amother




Khaki


Post  Fri, Feb 17 2017, 1:23 pm
Squishy wrote:
Children are entitled to Medicaid whether they are legal or not. The same is true for schooling. They get food. Up here everyone is entitled to free medical care. We even have Medicaid tourism with people flying in for procedures.


Yes, b'h we are humane and provide health services to children under 19 who are here illegally. Their parents are not receiving such services.

And yes, everybody gets to go to the er. I can't imagine that there could be any alternative.

But illegals are not getting welfare payments and medical care as some seem to think. And the system does not make it easy. I have spent more days in the welfare office than I care to recall and not on my own behalf. It is not easy to navigate the system and they shut you down on a whim and force you to begin the whole process over and over again. Not easy, not simple.
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