Unspecified shiva hours

amother

Plum

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 11:38 am

amother wrote:

When one of my friends was sitting shiva she complained to me that she cries enough on her own and does not need people to start crying on her. "And what if I'm not in the mood of crying this second, why do I have to calm others??"

When my uncle was nifter and 14 people rl sat shiva they all felt lighter when someone else cried. I was trying to say don't feel awkward if you burst out crying.

amother

Wheat

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 11:48 am

Simple1 wrote:

Are you sure? Or does this maybe depend on the particulars.

Because I know some people who really wanted visitors the first few days. Maybe not necessarily the first day. Also depends how close the friendship. Distant aquaintences I might agree it makes sense to wait.

.

Sometimes the shiva is held in two different cities (like first 3 days in the place of the niftar, then the aveilim go back to their homes). If the first 3 days is the only opportunity you will have to be menachem avel you should go.

SixOfWands

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 11:58 am

amother wrote:

It got my mother very nervous every time she heard it. Just say the pasuk and say BT

Its clearly a YMMV thing.

People say the pasuk because they're supposed to. Often, they say "I'm so sorry for your loss" or similar words because they mean it. It was a lot more meaningful to me than the rote repetition.

That's the real answer. Do what you think will be most meaningful to the mourner.

If you live in a community where most people work outside the home, and you're home at 2 pm the second weekday of shiva, please, show up. The mourner may well be alone. If the mourner is sitting with all 14 of her siblings, it may be different.

The important thing is being there.

amother

Scarlet

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 3:09 pm

amother wrote:

I went to a school that taught us the rules of shiva. And my mother lost two of her younger brothers rl. So some tips I can for sure tell you from my mom's experience.
One is not allowed to talk before the avel starts talking.
Only family (or very very close friends) are allowed to come the first three days.
It is appropriate to cry.
One is not allowed to take out food out of a shiva home.
Please do not walk in 9 am or 12 Pm or 5pm as the family would like to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Do not discuss the cause of death unless they bring it up.
Feel free to share any stories that you have to say about the niftar.
Do not force them to discuss a subject even if it is about the nifter. If they want to discuss baby carriages then do so.
One is not allowed to kiss an avel during shiva.
Please do not say I am so sorry for your loss and rub the person's back. They need personal space and they haven't showered for a week and they don't need you touching them.
Please do not say I understand you because my dog died two years ago. Humans and dogs are not the same.
Do not come be ניחום אבלים,after 10:30 max.
If you do not know the pasuk do not say ולכל בני ישראל לא יחרץ כלב לשונו.
. Like a girl once said to her classmate that was sitting shiva (its a true story that happened)
Do not tell the avel you need to have more emunah etc.
We should only have simchas with a happy heart.

Some of your tips are great and probably universal (like not bringing up the cause of death), but there are some that others may feel differently about. I sat shiva for my child and also spent a lot of time at shiva for my grandparents. I appreciated anyone who came on any day. Only family came the first day but after that people came when they were able to and I was grateful to whoever came. I appreciated people saying they were sorry for my loss and holding my hand or rubbing my sholder etc., unless they were people I barely knew. I also was glad when people came to see me at 9 because men stayed after davening to talk to DH and I was alone. We didn't necessarily eat at 12 or at 5. These things are very individual.

zaq

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 4:24 pm

amother wrote:

It got my mother very nervous every time she heard it. Just say the pasuk and say BT

Because your mother had a personal issue with an expression that is used across the board to express sympathy is no reason for amother to refrain from saying it to people she knows. Some people go crazy when they hear the words"Niagara Falls" , kwim? . Some people appreciate hearing "I'm sorry for your loss" . It's an accepted formula of sympathy and to some people may mean more than hamakom yenachem. After all, hamakom is rather impersonal. And no, saying I'm sorry for your loss is not asking for sympathy from the bereaved.

zaq

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 4:28 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

People say the pasuk because they're supposed to. Often, they say "I'm so sorry for your loss" or similar words because they mean it. It was a lot more meaningful to me than the rote repetition.
.

Yep. That's what I meant. Especially since many people don't even know what hamakom etc. means . Or they just mumble it or rattle it off real fast or read it from a plaque without even looking at the mourners.

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 6:58 pm

Just want to say, there's nothing wring with the avel being alone, necessarily. I think this is a very individual thing.

When I was sitting, and the house was almost empty, I really, really wished the one or two people there would realize that if only they'd leave, I'd get some down-time.

I knew they thought it wasn't nice to leave me alone for some reason, and I appreciated the thought, but it was definitely NOT my preference.

One caveat. If they actually knew my father and had something to share about him, then I appreciated the visit any time