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-> Parenting our children
-> School age children
Laiya
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 Fri, Feb 24 2017, 2:48 pm
| gold21 wrote: | | So if a mom leaves her 3 year old son home alone all day, she would not be subject to prosecution? There must be some legal guidelines. |
They make a decision on whether there was neglect, based on what's reasonable given the circumstances. It's not carte blanche to leave kids alone.
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33055
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Fri, Feb 24 2017, 3:01 pm
| sky wrote: | I posted this on another thread many states like NJ and NY have no laws.
MD is young at age 8, Illinios is old at age 14. |
CPS in NY says that some children are mature enough at 12 & 13 to be left home alone. Some teens are not yet mature enough. This is under the section of mandatory reporters. I wouldn't mess with CPS.
If someone leaves am 11 year old home alone, it is against CPS regulations.
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Laiya
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Fri, Feb 24 2017, 3:32 pm
| Squishy wrote: | CPS in NY says that some children are mature enough at 12 & 13 to be left home alone. Some teens are not yet mature enough. This is under the section of mandatory reporters. I wouldn't mess with CPS.
If someone leaves am 11 year old home alone, it is against CPS regulations. |
http://ocfs.ny.gov/main/cps/faqs.asp
At what age is it okay to leave my children home alone?
OCFS is often asked questions regarding the appropriate age to leave a child alone, or what age is appropriate to allow a child to begin babysitting. There are no straightforward answers to these questions. All children develop at their own rate, and with their own special needs and abilities. Some children are responsible, intelligent, and independent enough to be left alone at 12 or 13 years of age. Likewise, there are some teenagers who are too irresponsible or who have special needs that limit their ability to be safe if they are left alone.
Parents and guardians need to make intelligent, reasoned decisions regarding these matters.
Below there are some items for these decision-makers to consider before leaving a child alone. Be aware, this is just the beginning of issues to consider. It is not an all-inclusive checklist to guarantee intelligent and reasoned decision-making:
Consider the child: How mature is the child? How comfortable is the child with the circumstances? What has the child done in the past to show you he/she is able to take on this kind of responsibility?
Consider the child’s knowledge and ability: Does the child know how and when to contact emergency help? Is the child able to prepare food for him/herself? Are there hazards to the child in the environment such as accessible knives, power tools, a stove or oven?
Consider the circumstances: Where will the child be when left alone? How long is the child to be alone?
These same questions should be asked when considering whether a child is old enough to baby-sit. However, when considering a child as an adequate baby sitter, you must evaluate these factors for both the potential baby sitter as well as the needs of the child or children who will be cared for by the baby sitter. A child of 12 might be fine alone for two hours in an afternoon. Yet, the same child may be incapable of responsibly caring for a 5-year-old for that same period of time.
ETA. Sorry if I wasn't clear; the entire above is a copy/paste from the NYS Office of Children and Family Services website
Last edited by Laiya on Fri, Feb 24 2017, 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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33055
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Fri, Feb 24 2017, 3:45 pm
| Laiya wrote: | http://ocfs.ny.gov/main/cps/faqs.asp
At what age is it okay to leave my children home alone?
OCFS is often asked questions regarding the appropriate age to leave a child alone, or what age is appropriate to allow a child to begin babysitting. There are no straightforward answers to these questions. All children develop at their own rate, and with their own special needs and abilities. Some children are responsible, intelligent, and independent enough to be left alone at 12 or 13 years of age. Likewise, there are some teenagers who are too irresponsible or who have special needs that limit their ability to be safe if they are left alone.
Parents and guardians need to make intelligent, reasoned decisions regarding these matters.
Below there are some items for these decision-makers to consider before leaving a child alone. Be aware, this is just the beginning of issues to consider. It is not an all-inclusive checklist to guarantee intelligent and reasoned decision-making:
Consider the child: How mature is the child? How comfortable is the child with the circumstances? What has the child done in the past to show you he/she is able to take on this kind of responsibility?
Consider the child’s knowledge and ability: Does the child know how and when to contact emergency help? Is the child able to prepare food for him/herself? Are there hazards to the child in the environment such as accessible knives, power tools, a stove or oven?
Consider the circumstances: Where will the child be when left alone? How long is the child to be alone?
These same questions should be asked when considering whether a child is old enough to baby-sit. However, when considering a child as an adequate baby sitter, you must evaluate these factors for both the potential baby sitter as well as the needs of the child or children who will be cared for by the baby sitter. A child of 12 might be fine alone for two hours in an afternoon. Yet, the same child may be incapable of responsibly caring for a 5-year-old for that same period of time. |
I definitely would NOT use the logic with CPS that any child under 12 is mature enough to be left alone even if they are.
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gold21
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Fri, Feb 24 2017, 3:49 pm
| Laiya wrote: | | They make a decision on whether there was neglect, based on what's reasonable given the circumstances. It's not carte blanche to leave kids alone. |
Leaving a three year old home alone all day is in and of itself neglect. There's no chance the authorities would be OK with it.
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gold21
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Fri, Feb 24 2017, 3:52 pm
| Laiya wrote: | http://ocfs.ny.gov/main/cps/faqs.asp
At what age is it okay to leave my children home alone?
OCFS is often asked questions regarding the appropriate age to leave a child alone, or what age is appropriate to allow a child to begin babysitting. There are no straightforward answers to these questions. All children develop at their own rate, and with their own special needs and abilities. Some children are responsible, intelligent, and independent enough to be left alone at 12 or 13 years of age. Likewise, there are some teenagers who are too irresponsible or who have special needs that limit their ability to be safe if they are left alone.
Parents and guardians need to make intelligent, reasoned decisions regarding these matters.
Below there are some items for these decision-makers to consider before leaving a child alone. Be aware, this is just the beginning of issues to consider. It is not an all-inclusive checklist to guarantee intelligent and reasoned decision-making:
Consider the child: How mature is the child? How comfortable is the child with the circumstances? What has the child done in the past to show you he/she is able to take on this kind of responsibility?
Consider the child’s knowledge and ability: Does the child know how and when to contact emergency help? Is the child able to prepare food for him/herself? Are there hazards to the child in the environment such as accessible knives, power tools, a stove or oven?
Consider the circumstances: Where will the child be when left alone? How long is the child to be alone?
These same questions should be asked when considering whether a child is old enough to baby-sit. However, when considering a child as an adequate baby sitter, you must evaluate these factors for both the potential baby sitter as well as the needs of the child or children who will be cared for by the baby sitter. A child of 12 might be fine alone for two hours in an afternoon. Yet, the same child may be incapable of responsibly caring for a 5-year-old for that same period of time. |
So what you're saying here is that age 12 is the minimum age acceptable to be left home alone, but that not all 12+ year olds are capable, and you need to know your 12+ year old and his/her abilities.
Right, that's pretty much what I said too.
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33055
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Fri, Feb 24 2017, 4:01 pm
| gold21 wrote: | | Leaving a three year old home alone all day is in and of itself neglect. There's no chance the authorities would be OK with it. |
And if the case worker is not ok with even the 11 year old alone, then it will cost a fortune for a hearing and further court proceedings.
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Laiya
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Fri, Feb 24 2017, 4:10 pm
| gold21 wrote: | So what you're saying here is that age 12 is the minimum age acceptable to be left home alone, but that not all 12+ year olds are capable, and you need to know your 12+ year old and his/her abilities.
Right, that's pretty much what I said too. |
It sounds to me like they are specifically declining to give a minimum age.
Agree with Squishy that the case worker has discretion to decide there's a problem, which can be costly and a nuisance to defend.
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gold21
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Fri, Feb 24 2017, 4:14 pm
| Laiya wrote: | It sounds to me like they are specifically declining to give a minimum age.
Agree with Squishy that the case worker has discretion to decide there's a problem, which can be costly and a nuisance to defend. |
Yeah, it is pretty unclear, but I'm reading it as 12 the minimum recommended age, depending on the kids maturity...
I mean, there's no way age 6 or 7 would be acceptable to authorities no matter what the maturity level of the child is.
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33055
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Fri, Feb 24 2017, 4:20 pm
| gold21 wrote: | Yeah, it is pretty unclear, but I'm reading it as 12 the minimum recommended age, depending on the kids maturity...
I mean, there's no way age 6 or 7 would be acceptable to authorities no matter what the maturity level of the child is. |
I see it as the minimum allowed age, and that is dependent on the child being mature. It is not a bright line safe age.
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Aylat
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Sat, Feb 25 2017, 2:09 pm
| Laiya wrote: | http://ocfs.ny.gov/main/cps/faqs.asp
At what age is it okay to leave my children home alone?
OCFS is often asked questions regarding the appropriate age to leave a child alone, or what age is appropriate to allow a child to begin babysitting. There are no straightforward answers to these questions. All children develop at their own rate, and with their own special needs and abilities. Some children are responsible, intelligent, and independent enough to be left alone at 12 or 13 years of age. Likewise, there are some teenagers who are too irresponsible or who have special needs that limit their ability to be safe if they are left alone.
Parents and guardians need to make intelligent, reasoned decisions regarding these matters.
ETA. Sorry if I wasn't clear; the entire above is a copy/paste from the NYS Office of Children and Family Services website |
If a regular teenager (not special needs) is not mature enough to be at home alone, there is a problem with the way they have been raised. Truthfully, I can't even imagine this scenario.
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Aylat
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Sat, Feb 25 2017, 3:03 pm
| gold21 wrote: |
Leaving little ones home alone is a shortcut, one that many moms do not agree with. I'm not judging people who do rely on this shortcut, I get it, life is stressful and overwhelming and sometimes people feel like they need to rely on shortcuts. But it really is a very very b'dieved shortcut.
That's my take on it.  |
I want to make two points.
Firstly: I don't leave my kids at home as a 'shortcut'. My parenting philosophy involves actively teaching my kids to become responsible, autonomous and capable. Everything proceeds in stages. We talk and rehearse scenarios. They practice. If they or I are uncomfortable with their ability to handle a given situation, either physically or emotionally, they don't do it until I see that they are ready. I'm not just talking about kids being home alone here. My kids are learning how to cook (sharp knives, boiling water, oven), how to shop, how to use the washing machine and dishwasher, how to use the sewing machine, even how to resist peer pressure. My 11 y.o. daughter told me she is one of only two in her class who wears her bike helmet all the time.
Secondly: Weighing the risks and benefits means taking into account the benefits as well as the risks. If the risk is miniscule but the results would be devastating (house fire) then I'm not going to take that risk for a trivial benefit. If the benefit is significant (not exposing my children to a raging blizzard) then I will very possibly decide that it outweighs the miniscule risk. That is not called taking a shortcut. (NB obviously the risk of leaving a toddler/preschooler home alone are not limited to the burning house scenario and are pretty significant, and would have a very different risk/benefit analysis.)
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finprof
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Sat, Feb 25 2017, 8:00 pm
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My parents got me up then left for work about an hr before school when I was 8. I would walk to school then home and be alone for about an hr till my mom came home. This was in the late 1980s. I let my 2 & 4 yr olds play in the back yard while I'm inside and can hear them. I suspect I will feel comfortable leaving them home alone for an hour by age 7.
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gold21
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Sat, Feb 25 2017, 8:05 pm
| finprof wrote: | | My parents got me up then left for work about an hr before school when I was 8. I would walk to school then home and be alone for about an hr till my mom came home. This was in the late 1980s. I let my 2 & 4 yr olds play in the back yard while I'm inside and can hear them. I suspect I will feel comfortable leaving them home alone for an hour by age 7. |
I was 8 in the early/mid-90s and I can't think of anybody at all who left their 8 year old child home alone. Leaving a child home alone for an hour at age 7 is considered unsafe by most moms.
May I ask what community you affiliate with?
Last edited by gold21 on Sat, Feb 25 2017, 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gold21
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Sat, Feb 25 2017, 8:07 pm
| Aylat wrote: | I want to make two points.
Firstly: I don't leave my kids at home as a 'shortcut'. My parenting philosophy involves actively teaching my kids to become responsible, autonomous and capable. Everything proceeds in stages. We talk and rehearse scenarios. They practice. If they or I are uncomfortable with their ability to handle a given situation, either physically or emotionally, they don't do it until I see that they are ready. I'm not just talking about kids being home alone here. My kids are learning how to cook (sharp knives, boiling water, oven), how to shop, how to use the washing machine and dishwasher, how to use the sewing machine, even how to resist peer pressure. My 11 y.o. daughter told me she is one of only two in her class who wears her bike helmet all the time.
Secondly: Weighing the risks and benefits means taking into account the benefits as well as the risks. If the risk is miniscule but the results would be devastating (house fire) then I'm not going to take that risk for a trivial benefit. If the benefit is significant (not exposing my children to a raging blizzard) then I will very possibly decide that it outweighs the miniscule risk. That is not called taking a shortcut. (NB obviously the risk of leaving a toddler/preschooler home alone are not limited to the burning house scenario and are pretty significant, and would have a very different risk/benefit analysis.) |
It's not the type of thing where I would assess risk vs benefit. It wouldn't cross my mind. It's not even on my radar. It doesn't happen. Risk vs benefit should not apply to the safety of children- that's a risk that's never worth taking.
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amother
Seafoam
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Sat, Feb 25 2017, 8:27 pm
| gold21 wrote: | I was 8 in the early/mid-90s and I can't think of anybody at all who left their 8 year old child home alone. Leaving a child home alone for an hour at age 7 is considered unsafe by most moms.
May I ask what community you affiliate with? |
I'm about the same age as you and I was regularly left for up to an hour at a time at 8, as were many of my friends. We were taking subways by ourselves by 12 or 13. This was an upper middle class community in NYC where most parents were highly educated professionals. There is nothing objectively unsafe with leaving a typically developing 7 or 8 year old alone for short periods of time. A child of that age should know how to call 911, what to do if there's a fire, not to answer the door for anyone, and should be able to fix themselves a snack if they get hungry. As things stand, the only reason I will wait till my kids are a little older before leaving them alone is because our oppressive helicopter culture has decided it's not ok and I don't want to deal with the potential trouble it could cause. I do think our kids are suffering for it. Today's high schoolers are capable of little more than tying their shoes.
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gold21
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Sat, Feb 25 2017, 8:34 pm
| amother wrote: | | I'm about the same age as you and I was regularly left for up to an hour at a time at 8, as were many of my friends. We were taking subways by ourselves by 12 or 13. This was an upper middle class community in NYC where most parents were highly educated professionals. There is nothing objectively unsafe with leaving a typically developing 7 or 8 year old alone for short periods of time. A child of that age should know how to call 911, what to do if there's a fire, not to answer the door for anyone, and should be able to fix themselves a snack if they get hungry. As things stand, the only reason I will wait till my kids are a little older before leaving them alone is because our oppressive helicopter culture has decided it's not ok and I don't want to deal with the potential trouble it could cause. I do think our kids are suffering for it. Today's high schoolers are capable of little more than tying their shoes. |
Your parents didn't have a nanny at home when they went to work? This was before the age of cell phones- what were you expected to do in case of emergency, if your parents were unreachable?
So, yeah, I was also given a lot more freedom and independence at 12/13. But that's age appropriate. I have no problem with that.
8 is very young.
You can raise accomplished successful independent kids without taking safety risks.
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cm
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Sat, Feb 25 2017, 8:46 pm
| amother wrote: | | I'm about the same age as you and I was regularly left for up to an hour at a time at 8, as were many of my friends. We were taking subways by ourselves by 12 or 13. This was an upper middle class community in NYC where most parents were highly educated professionals. There is nothing objectively unsafe with leaving a typically developing 7 or 8 year old alone for short periods of time. A child of that age should know how to call 911, what to do if there's a fire, not to answer the door for anyone, and should be able to fix themselves a snack if they get hungry. As things stand, the only reason I will wait till my kids are a little older before leaving them alone is because our oppressive helicopter culture has decided it's not ok and I don't want to deal with the potential trouble it could cause. I do think our kids are suffering for it. Today's high schoolers are capable of little more than tying their shoes. |
This.
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gold21
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Sat, Feb 25 2017, 8:53 pm
Regarding helicopter parenting- I have a neighbor who has a large family KA"H and she teaches her kids to be independent at a young age. Her kids cook (from around age 8, they are in the kitchen preparing Shabbos food every week, girls and boys alike) they clean (she doesn't have cleaning help, her kids do the work), they put away their own laundry, they do homework on their own, they bathe the younger ones, etc.- they are not mollycoddled at all... But she would never leave her kids home alone under age 12. She's more nervous than I am to let the kids bike around the corner!
Safety and independence do NOT go hand in hand. False equivalence.
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eschaya
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Sat, Feb 25 2017, 8:56 pm
Legal age in Maryland (according to fire code laws I believe) is 8 yo to be home alone, and 13 to be responsible for other children below the age of 8.
I've left my older kids (8+) home alone for modest periods of time, always knowing that they can go to our frum next door neighbor or call me if they need anything. This usually occurs if I'm running an errand or otherwise out of the home near the time they return from school. They typically call me after letting themselves in, and I tell them when I'll be home (usually less than half hour), what snack to take, etc.
I have one child <8, so I'm really looking forward to when DD turns 13 in a few months, so that I don't need to make alternate plans for the little one.
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