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Do you update your minhagim based on practicality?
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amother




Lime


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 4:50 pm
Pesach minhagim are a VERY touchy subject....

My parents don't use a lot of ingredients that their parents didn't use.... but of course, so much of this stuff wasn't available in Europe, so of course they didn't use them.

Current example: brown sugar.
Grandma - both in Europe and in NY - never used brown sugar. I don't think they had KLP brown sugar in Europe. However, we always used regular sugar, we didn't boil our sugar, etc.
Mom won't use brown sugar, because Grandma didn't.

I want to use brown sugar!

Next example: ice cream
MIL won't use ice cream on Pesach. She says they never had ice cream on Pesach. No duh. They didn't have cholov yisroel kosher l'pesach ice cream when she was growing up.

I want ice cream on pesach!

I'm not asking for advice at all... I'm just curious how steadfast you hold onto "minhagim" (I don't even know if these are REAL minhagim).
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amother




Burgundy


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 4:56 pm
I always tell my kids that my grandparents didn't eat kiwis and mangoes on Pesach. That's because they never ate tropical fruit in their lives. So what?

A minhag is something that grows out of observing halacha. Not eating something that wasn't available to you just isn't in that category. I'm not changing my grandparents' minhag by eating a mango. I would be changing their minhag if I ate kitniyos.

Cue the jokes about the woman who cuts the end off her brisket and the men who all bow as they walk past a certain part of the shul.
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tichellady









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 4:57 pm
I would. I am not so into sticking to minhagim that don't make any sense to me
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SixOfWands









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 4:59 pm
amother wrote:
I always tell my kids that my grandparents didn't eat kiwis and mangoes on Pesach. That's because they never ate tropical fruit in their lives. So what?

A minhag is something that grows out of observing halacha. Not eating something that wasn't available to you just isn't in that category. I'm not changing my grandparents' minhag by eating a mango. I would be changing their minhag if I ate kitniyos.

Cue the jokes about the woman who cuts the end off her brisket and the men who all bow as they walk past a certain part of the shul.


Quoting because I can't like it twice.
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mfb









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 5:05 pm
I think brown sugar is more processed than regular sugar, and the minhag for those that don't use most things comes from not using processed foods, since the more processing the more chance chometz got in.
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greenfire









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 5:30 pm
a lot of the minhagim are due to the way they are processed ... now keep in mind nobody ever starved because they didn't eat matza balls or matza pizza let alone matza rolls ... the things they make that totally lose sight of yom tov trying all too hard to make chometz comparative foods

how many of you have a chanuka tree cause life changed ... or only light on electric lamps

maybe I'm just a little too old-fashioned
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SixOfWands









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 5:45 pm
greenfire wrote:
a lot of the minhagim are due to the way they are processed ... now keep in mind nobody ever starved because they didn't eat matza balls or matza pizza let alone matza rolls ... the things they make that totally lose sight of yom tov trying all too hard to make chometz comparative foods

how many of you have a chanuka tree cause life changed ... or only light on electric lamps

maybe I'm just a little too old-fashioned


The recipe for my rolls comes from the Planters Peanut Oil Passover Cookbook, and is quite old.







Hmmm. If our minhag was to use peanut oil -- almost everyone's minhag was to use peanut oil back then -- why can't I use it now?

And just for fun, it says Rabbi Hersch Kohn. Here he is inspecting Maxell House coffee for Passover in 1949:


Picture resized
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myself









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 5:46 pm
As others have said, brown sugar is more processed.

If the ice cream only uses ingredients that you already use, then I personally would go for it. But that's just MHO. And our family does eat ice cream on Pesach so perhaps I'm not all that objective. Smile
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greenfire









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 6:10 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
The recipe for my rolls comes from the Planters Peanut Oil Passover Cookbook, and is quite old.







Hmmm. If our minhag was to use peanut oil -- almost everyone's minhag was to use peanut oil back then -- why can't I use it now?

And just for fun, it says Rabbi Hersch Kohn. Here he is inspecting Maxell House coffee for Passover in 1949:


Picture resized


lol ~ my mother says the same thing ... but guess what? that is all they had ... gotta wonder about this kitniyus ... maybe more of us played our sephardi card

then again I can bake non-gebrocht passover sponge cake ... what more to life is there

[I bet if I searched mama's house we'd find one of those passover recipe books from planters ... there surely are maxwell house haggadas]
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zohar









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 6:42 pm
The reason for no brown sugar is that it is processed. But the reason of not eating processed foods is not because it's more likely to be chometz, but because of the minhag/chumra of not mishing, which is when people are more stringent than the rest of the year and while they would normally rely on other frum Jews' kashrus in their cooking (and by extension rely on hechsheirim), on pesach thru are more strict and only eat things that they themselves prepared.
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essie14









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 6:42 pm
amother wrote:
I always tell my kids that my grandparents didn't eat kiwis and mangoes on Pesach. That's because they never ate tropical fruit in their lives. So what?

A minhag is something that grows out of observing halacha. Not eating something that wasn't available to you just isn't in that category. I'm not changing my grandparents' minhag by eating a mango. I would be changing their minhag if I ate kitniyos.

Cue the jokes about the woman who cuts the end off her brisket and the men who all bow as they walk past a certain part of the shul.

Haha. I JUST told my kids the brisket joke. Even my holocaust survivor grandmother says "of course we didn't eat XYZ on pesach, we never had those things all year round!"
We eat everything on pesach that says kosher for pesach Smile
Not eating something that was preserved in chametz alcohol is not a minhag. It was called "not eating chametz". Nowadays if garlic has no chance of being chametz, it's not breaking a minhag to eat it.
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greenfire









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 7:07 pm
not eating brisket stems from the korban pesach that we're not supposed to eat roasted meat by the seder ... taken all the way through pesach for some
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zaq









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 7:31 pm
You need to clarify what is a bona fide minhag Yisrael and what is not. The garlic thing is AIUI because garlic was grown in grain fields and there was a Chashash that it might have some grain stuck to it. Apparently this is no longer the case but people stick to their minhag im.

However, not using brown sugar, or olives, or cocoa, or bay leaves or Ultrasuede or motor vehicles because they weren't available is not a minhag. You can't have a "minhag" to avoid something that doesn't exist or you can't get.

Therefore I wouldnt hesitate to use olives, pickles, ketchup, ice cream or anything else that my mother didn't use. Nor is my Pesach menu a replica of hers. She made borscht from scratch; I don't. I make cakes from scratch; she didn't. None of this is a minhag Yisrael. We have more than enough regulations, commandments, principles, prohibitions, and precautions governing our religious lives--and in the frantic slide to the right, people have forgotten that bal tosif is one of them. We don't practice religion out of practicality, but at the same time we should not confuse practicality with religion.
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mfb









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 7:39 pm
If you have a minhag not to use processed foods, then that includes even items that weren't available then.
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zohar









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 7:45 pm
zaq wrote:
You need to clarify what is a bona fide minhag Yisrael and what is not. The garlic thing is AIUI because garlic was grown in grain fields and there was a Chashash that it might have some grain stuck to it. Apparently this is no longer the case but people stick to their minhag im.

However, not using brown sugar, or olives, or cocoa, or bay leaves or Ultrasuede or motor vehicles because they weren't available is not a minhag. You can't have a "minhag" to avoid something that doesn't exist or you can't get.

Therefore I wouldnt hesitate to use olives, pickles, ketchup, ice cream or anything else that my mother didn't use. Nor is my Pesach menu a replica of hers. She made borscht from scratch; I don't. I make cakes from scratch; she didn't. None of this is a minhag Yisrael. We have more than enough regulations, commandments, principles, prohibitions, and precautions governing our religious lives--and in the frantic slide to the right, people have forgotten that bal tosif is one of them. We don't practice religion out of practicality, but at the same time we should not confuse practicality with religion.



The reason ppl don't eat brown sugar, ice cream, ketchup, pickles etc. Is because they don't "mish". Not because Babby and Zeidy didn't have it "in der heim". Growing up, my family was very strict with not mishing. No oil, used schmaltz, no cocoa, no potato starch etc. But we did eat bananas and pineapple and kiwis and other fruits not available to our grandparents.
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zaq









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 7:48 pm
greenfire wrote:
a lot of the minhagim are due to the way they are processed ... now keep in mind nobody ever starved because they didn't eat matza balls or matza pizza let alone matza rolls ... the things they make that totally lose sight of yom tov trying all too hard to make chometz comparative foods

how many of you have a chanuka tree cause life changed ... or only light on electric lamps

maybe I'm just a little too old-fashioned


Hear, hear!
I view with great disfavor the almost frantic efforts on the parts of many to make "fake Chometz " foods for Pesach. We can survive a week without blintzes, pizza and lasagna. OTOH I don't believe in ancestor worship. If my mom didn't make turkey on Pesach because you couldn't get them, or because a turkey was beyond her means, that is not sufficient reason for me not to make turkey on Pesach.
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Cmon be nice









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 7:49 pm
greenfire wrote:
not eating brisket stems from the korban pesach that we're not supposed to eat roasted meat by the seder ... taken all the way through pesach for some

No. The brisket joke is about a lady who always cut off a piece of meat before she cooks it. When asked why she says because thats what her mother did. Finally the great grandmother explains that the pot they used was very small and therefore they had to cut the meat. This is turn became a minhag
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amother




Lilac


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 7:54 pm
I used to keep the minhag of not using utensils that fell on the floor on pesach. It was making me insane. I finally decided my mental health was more important than this minhag.
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greenfire









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 7:54 pm
Cmon be nice wrote:
No. The brisket joke is about a lady who always cut off a piece of meat before she cooks it. When asked why she says because thats what her mother did. Finally the great grandmother explains that the pot they used was very small and therefore they had to cut the meat. This is turn became a minhag


I know the joke ... but the serious minhag stems from the above [I could ask my papa but he probably won't answer due to his location not being so local]
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greenfire









  


Post  Mon, Mar 20 2017, 7:58 pm
zaq wrote:
She made borscht from scratch; I don't. I make cakes from scratch; she didn't.


too funny ... I make borscht only nobody drinks it ... [from my boiled beets for pesach potatoe salad] my kids might even think it's a minhag to make it just to throw it out after pesach
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