What sick chinuch is this?

amother

Linen

Wed, Mar 29 2017, 11:15 am

Does anyone recognize what street that is? It looks slightly familiar to me- any chance it's Yirmiyahu or right near it? If so, she may not have even been able to help being there. There's a women's health clinic right near there, for instance, and ALL of Clalit's women's health clinics in Yerushalayim are in Charedi or Arab neighborhoods. I felt awkward enough when I had to go there in the summer since I wear sandals, but I really felt bad for the non-Orthodox women who had to walk there for their ultrasounds or glucose test.

imasoftov

Wed, Mar 29 2017, 12:42 pm

I came across a copy of the video on Youtube, it's identical except for a YWN logo at the start, and you can still see the logo from Channel 2 News, but the video description says it's copyrighted by YWN.

I also found a video at YWN's channel from a demonstration that seems to have been on Shabbat. Wouldn't it be ironic if they get criticized, not for using other people's videos, but because people think that they sent a photographer to film on Shabbat?

MagentaYenta

Wed, Mar 29 2017, 1:46 pm

ora_43 wrote:

I doubt anyone is teaching them that.

The problem is that it's not enough to not actively teach certain bad behaviors. You have to actively teach kids *not* to do those things.

Some of those kids there looked relatively young (8-10), are you saying they just go out at night to watch riots alone? Or perhaps they were brought there by their fathers, who were participating?

Chayalle

Wed, Mar 29 2017, 1:55 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Some of those kids there looked relatively young (8-10), are you saying they just go out at night to watch riots alone? Or perhaps they were brought there by their fathers, who were participating?

Or they live in the vicinity....my mother A"H used to tell me of close friends of our family who live in a street right off Bar Ilan, and the challenges their parents had keeping them home and away from the "action" of Shabbos demonstrations and violence going on around the corner from their home, that they did not wish their young sons to witness or be part of.

ora_43

Wed, Mar 29 2017, 1:57 pm

imasoftov wrote:

I'm curious about what information, if any, the rabbis who encourage the protests receive about how some of the protestors behave, and whether they've reacted in any way.

The rabbis who were saying things like "the first Prime Minister of Israel, may his name be erased" and "we survived the Nazis, we will survive this too"? Who rallied under a big sign saying how they won't let the "Zionist kofrim" force them into the "tamei" army?

I doubt they care.

They are making every effort to make this out to be a battle for the future of Torah, in which the cruel Zionist entity is oppressing the innocent, pure hareidim. How are they going to follow that up with, "but don't, like, be mean to people, that's just not called for."

Chayalle

Wed, Mar 29 2017, 2:03 pm

ora_43 wrote:

Your first two examples are horrible. The first Prime Minister was Jewish - and can have Jewish descendants. We don't say Y"SH for that. We might disagree ideologically, but this is going too far.

And comparing this to the Nazis?! These people should be forced to spend a few hours with my grandmother, may she live to 120....for an education, before they dare compare.

In terms of your 3rd example - I have definitely heard of Kefirah and rather unholy stuff going on in the army....I could relate to that much more than the first two.

MagentaYenta

Wed, Mar 29 2017, 2:04 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Seriously, it's difficult to keep an 8 year old boy from attending a demonstration after dark on shabbos? WTH is wrong with parents? Excuse me for having an American attitude towards children, but these are children. They have no place at these demonstrations.

ora_43

Wed, Mar 29 2017, 2:04 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Some of those kids there looked relatively young (8-10), are you saying they just go out at night to watch riots alone? Or perhaps they were brought there by their fathers, who were participating?

Oh, I believe their parents brought them there on purpose. I just think it's more likely that their parents never told them *not* to attack or harass people than that they intentionally taught them to do it.

Chayalle

Wed, Mar 29 2017, 2:06 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

True. The ones I was talking about were taking place on long summer Shabbos afternoons.

ora_43

Wed, Mar 29 2017, 2:07 pm

FTR I'm not basing this on any in-depth familiarity with the community. It's just been my general experience that for every one parent who is like "why yes, my child is a racist, I'm so proud" there are at least nine others who are genuinely surprised that their child is racist/sexist/a thug/etc, despite having put very little effort into making sure their child didn't turn out that way.

(There are also, of course, parents who made every effort. We don't control our kids. But that's more relevant to older teens, than to the kids in the video.)

imasoftov

Wed, Mar 29 2017, 3:30 pm

Chayalle wrote:

True. The ones I was talking about were taking place on long summer Shabbos afternoons.

I've seen posters for Shabbat afternoon protests saying that only adults should attend. But photos and videos show that this directive is not universally followed. I also wonder if the leadership knows, and if they do, if they try to do something about it.

sequoia

Thu, Mar 30 2017, 12:59 am

ora_43 wrote:

It's just been my general experience that for every one parent who is like "why yes, my child is a racist, I'm so proud" there are at least nine others who are genuinely surprised that their child is racist/sexist/a thug/etc, despite having put very little effort into making sure their child didn't turn out that way.

For in general mortals have a great power of being astonished at the presence of an effect towards which they have done everything, and at the absence of an effect towards which they have done nothing but desire it. Parents are astonished at the ignorance of their sons, though they have used the most time-honored and expensive means of securing it; husbands and wives are mutually astonished at the loss of affection which they have taken no pains to keep; and all of us in our turn are apt to be astonished that our neighbors do not admire us. In this way it happens that the truth seems highly improbable. The truth is something different from the habitual lazy combinations begotten by our wishes.

George Eliot, "Daniel Deronda"

amother

Jade

Thu, Mar 30 2017, 1:17 am

sequoia wrote:

Shame on you for quoting such a Zionist book! Wink

heidi

Thu, Mar 30 2017, 1:50 am

There are sick people in every segment of society.
When Amona was evacuated a few months ago, I was absolutely appalled by the behavior of some of the youth who came to "support" the settlers. As an ardent Zionist, I am embarrassed to have children like that as part of my community, and even more horrified that there are parents who knowingly or unknowlingly allow this kind of sick behavior. However, the vast majority of Zionists and anti Zionists are normal people with normal behaviors. The sickies are on view, but the normals certainly outnumber them by about a million to one.,

water_bear88

Thu, Mar 30 2017, 2:14 am

heidi wrote:

Really? There are what, 6-7 million Jews in Israel? How many people were singing and dancing in glee about the murder of the Dawabsha family at that awful wedding? How many on this site absolutely refused to believe that a Jew could have committed that crime? I think you're vastly overestimating the proportion of normal to crazy, and ignoring the big subsection of normal that talks crazy in front of impressionable teenagers. Somebody keeps voting for Betzalel Smotrich, and a lot more than one in a million.

shevi82

Thu, Mar 30 2017, 3:07 am

Horrible Terrible I have no words!
I know this was said many times and it seems that it is all the charedim, but these are actually a group who split from the majority of the charedi world. (Hapeleg)
They do not send their yeshiva boys to take care of their "dichui" , therefore they are getting arrested which brings them to demonstrate.
They are against Harav Shteinman who currently is the gadol Hador.
The charedim in EY are in a big mess in between themselves, this is causing major problems including shalom bayis, family arguments. Schools, shuls and Yeshivas are splitting.
All I can say is hopefully Moshiach is on it's way, because it can't get must worse.

moonstone

Thu, Mar 30 2017, 5:47 am

greenfire wrote:

these are the people who should b'davka be drafted into the army !!!

Greenfire, I think I love you!! Very Happy

I couldn't agree more. The army is exactly what these xxxxs need.