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Yeshiva tuition assistance
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unexpected









  


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 11:52 pm
The yeshiva I send to informed us that there is a "range" when it comes to tuition, and you can choose where you belong on the spectrum. In the beginning we paid full, but as the children (BH) kept coming we negotiated discounts. I happen to know that my school does not have any major donors, and money that is brought in from dinners, campaigns etc. comes mostly from the parent body of the school, everyone giving what they can. We do live in Brooklyn where a child who receives vouchers pays more than the children who don't. (ie. vouchers pays around 7000 a year, while full tuition is 5000) I'm assuming that the schools cover the shortfall from the multiple gov't programs that they receive.
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amother




Saddlebrown


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 11:56 pm
I know it's not necessarily the same in every school but for all those saying full tuition doesn't cover what it costs to educate a child, here's my experience...

My children's school charges (and I pay) approximately $11k/child. I was told by my rav that anything above what it costs to educate my child can be considered Maaser.

I asked the school the cost (so I could calculate what I am paying in Maaser), and they told me it costs them $7.5k to educate my child.
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Hashem_Yaazor









  


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 12:03 am
I've had the opposite experience. When numbers were added up on the expense side and divided by student body population, the price per child was higher than full tuition.
And I've heard from numerous administrators that this is the reality in their school too.
A lot probably depends on class size, specials offered, resources available, status of the building (new vs old with repairs, rental vs owned, etc)

To the OP, write what you think you can afford. If it's half, it's half. They won't grant you more aid than you ask for, but they certainly won't hesitate to ask for more if they think you can afford it/that's too little. Don't think just because you're writing a low figure they'll completely deny you assistance. It's not like a bid where if you go too low, you've lost your chance.
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amother




Oak


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 12:47 am
Squishy wrote:
Even with all the government money available and with teacher getting bobkis, there are stilll physical plant costs per pupil such as insurance, utilities, janitor supplies, office supplies, repairs, janitor's salaries, bookkeepers, lawyers, accountants, etc. There could be rent or mortgage.

Teachers salaries are only one component of the cost of running a school.


Most day schools spend 85 to 90 percent of the budget in payroll. Salaries (and qualifications) are generally lower the further you go to the right, and tuitions reflect that. Even in the high paying, high-tuition MO schools, no one's getting rich on a chinuch salary.
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amother




Powderblue


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 1:22 am
I work in the bookkeeping department of a Brooklyn yeshiva. Tuition is around 11k per child. At least three quarters of the kids are on scholarship. If all parents paid full tuition the school would probably still need fundraiserers. Your full tuition is not paying to educate anyone else child. The way it works by us is that tuition covers payroll and the fundraising money covers maintenance.
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amother




Oak


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 1:29 am
amother wrote:
I work in the bookkeeping department of a Brooklyn yeshiva. Tuition is around 11k per child. At least three quarters of the kids are on scholarship. If all parents paid full tuition the school would probably still need fundraiserers. Your full tuition is not paying to educate anyone else child. The way it works by us is that tuition covers payroll and the fundraising money covers maintenance.


Again, this depends on the school. Some charge exactly the cost per child, some charge less, many charge more.
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Ruchel









  


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 3:44 am
My experiences with schools has been that they ask your salary, nothing else. Also attitude toward tuition will range from, no break ever there's public school donwstairs, to taking whatever you can/nothing if that's last resort. Chabad is often closer to the last one, and elitist MO schools (please read all.my.words before attacking) to the first.
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staten islander









  


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 11:03 am
Unfortunately, if you have 4 kids and live in the tristate area, you need to make at least 250k and even then you will struggle to pay tuition. Our tuition bill this year is 60k, which is around 100k pre tax. Sometimes we look at ourselves and ask why we don't put our kids in ps
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octopus









  


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 11:36 am
Squishy wrote:
Even with all the government money available and with teacher getting bobkis, there are stilll physical plant costs per pupil such as insurance, utilities, janitor supplies, office supplies, repairs, janitor's salaries, bookkeepers, lawyers, accountants, etc. There could be rent or mortgage.

Teachers salaries are only one component of the cost of running a school.


Yes, I understand. My full tuition is not covering the cost of another parent's lack of paying full price. It is going toward the upkeep of school, plus cost of educating my child.

ETA: okay, maybe my full tuition cost doesn't cover upkeep of school based on what the tuition administrator wrote upthread.


Last edited by octopus on Fri, Apr 21 2017, 11:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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octopus









  


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 11:37 am
amother wrote:
I work in the bookkeeping department of a Brooklyn yeshiva. Tuition is around 11k per child. At least three quarters of the kids are on scholarship. If all parents paid full tuition the school would probably still need fundraiserers. Your full tuition is not paying to educate anyone else child. The way it works by us is that tuition covers payroll and the fundraising money covers maintenance.


Thanks. This was my point.
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amother




Chartreuse


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 12:14 pm
amother wrote:
I work in the bookkeeping department of a Brooklyn yeshiva. Tuition is around 11k per child. At least three quarters of the kids are on scholarship. If all parents paid full tuition the school would probably still need fundraiserers. Your full tuition is not paying to educate anyone else child. The way it works by us is that tuition covers payroll and the fundraising money covers maintenance.



I get that your a bookkeeper in a yeshiva, but until I see a detailed explanation on where all the money is going, we don't really know. My yeshiva charges 12k for my 5th grade son. They also have a mandatory dinner. I think there are 23 boys in his class. That's 276k raised if everyone paid full. The rebbe probably makes 55k and the English teacher half that. That would leave a little less than 200k to pay for all the other mant expenses. Is it possible that generating almost 200k from each class is not enough to pay the bills? I can't dispute it because I don't know what all the other bills entail. That being said imho it certainly appears that full tuition would more than cover the bills and is actually used to offset those that can only afford less.
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amother




Brunette


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 12:53 pm
"[quote="amother"]It makes me feel really uncomfortable to think of it as taking tzedaka money. Dh and I will most likely never have salaries that will make it possible to pay full tuition."

Please consider this when deciding whether or not to have more children.
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amother




Blush


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 3:33 pm
So you're telling us that we shouldn't have more children unless DH or I or both of us switch professions because for a few years while kids are little we need more substantial tuition assistance?

[quote="amother"]"
amother wrote:
It makes me feel really uncomfortable to think of it as taking tzedaka money. Dh and I will most likely never have salaries that will make it possible to pay full tuition."

Please consider this when deciding whether or not to have more children.
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amother




Powderblue


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 5:27 pm
amother wrote:
I get that your a bookkeeper in a yeshiva, but until I see a detailed explanation on where all the money is going, we don't really know. My yeshiva charges 12k for my 5th grade son. They also have a mandatory dinner. I think there are 23 boys in his class. That's 276k raised if everyone paid full. The rebbe probably makes 55k and the English teacher half that. That would leave a little less than 200k to pay for all the other mant expenses. Is it possible that generating almost 200k from each class is not enough to pay the bills? I can't dispute it because I don't know what all the other bills entail. That being said imho it certainly appears that full tuition would more than cover the bills and is actually used to offset those that can only afford less.


I am the bookkeeper who works in the school. There are many many expenses besides rebbe and teachers salaries. The biggest expense after salaries is maintenance. Keep in mind the school has put money away for major renovations and repairs. Our school feeds all kids breakfast and lunch regardless if they are eligible for food program. The administrative staff also needs to get paid. Supplies is a big expense, especially in younger grades.
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amother




Brunette


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 5:29 pm
amother wrote:
So you're telling us that we shouldn't have more children unless DH or I or both of us switch professions because for a few years while kids are little we need more substantial tuition assistance?



Yes. That's what I'm saying. Don't have more kids than you can afford.
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amother




Seafoam


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 5:36 pm
amother wrote:
I get that your a bookkeeper in a yeshiva, but until I see a detailed explanation on where all the money is going, we don't really know. My yeshiva charges 12k for my 5th grade son. They also have a mandatory dinner. I think there are 23 boys in his class. That's 276k raised if everyone paid full. The rebbe probably makes 55k and the English teacher half that. That would leave a little less than 200k to pay for all the other mant expenses. Is it possible that generating almost 200k from each class is not enough to pay the bills? I can't dispute it because I don't know what all the other bills entail. That being said imho it certainly appears that full tuition would more than cover the bills and is actually used to offset those that can only afford less.


Your son only has 2 teachers? I pay about 6K for my 5th grade son (I know it doesn't cover their costs). They have a rebbe, an an English teacher, reading group teacher, a shabbos halacha teacher, writing workshops, etc. Hebrew principal, assistant hebrew principal, grade Hebrew principal, English principal, assistant English principal, curriculum advisor, Assistant English principal, services scheduler, building secretary, multiple floor secretaries, building manager, janitors, lawn care, mortgage, paper, copiers, phones, security system, Insurance. they also keep up the building - like paint every few years.
In the younger grades there is a minimum of 1 assistant in every classroom and many times more than one.

[They have no Phys Ed, Arts, Music, etc. - I would think that would add significant costs]
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amother




Lavender


Post  Sat, Apr 22 2017, 6:40 pm
[quote="amother"]"
amother wrote:
It makes me feel really uncomfortable to think of it as taking tzedaka money. Dh and I will most likely never have salaries that will make it possible to pay full tuition."

Please consider this when deciding whether or not to have more children.


If the point of Jewish schools is to ensure the future of the Jewish people, telling people to have less kids seems counterproductive.
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octopus









  


Post  Sat, Apr 22 2017, 10:28 pm
amother wrote:
Yes. That's what I'm saying. Don't have more kids than you can afford.


Part of keeping jewish schools "alive" is having enough students for enrollment. I wouldn't go around telling people about how many kids they should or should not have. If you give a school well-behaved, bright, happy children, believe me, they will want you whether you can pay full tuition or not.
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amother




Chartreuse


Post  Sat, Apr 22 2017, 10:36 pm
amother wrote:
I am the bookkeeper who works in the school. There are many many expenses besides rebbe and teachers salaries. The biggest expense after salaries is maintenance. Keep in mind the school has put money away for major renovations and repairs. Our school feeds all kids breakfast and lunch regardless if they are eligible for food program. The administrative staff also needs to get paid. Supplies is a big expense, especially in younger grades.


But again, your just telling me there are "other expenses". Until I know how much those expenses are, and how much the yeshiva is bringing in, we really won't know what the actual fair full tuition should be.
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amother




Coral


Post  Sat, Apr 22 2017, 10:41 pm
amother wrote:
Yes. That's what I'm saying. Don't have more kids than you can afford.


I'm curious does anyone know of a situation where a couple asked a shaila regarding birth control - that only reason they don't want to have more kids is because they can't afford the extra tuition - what did the Rabbi respond?
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