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amother




Yellow


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 5:12 pm
Squishy wrote:
OMH,

That is their total gimmick. How many examples do you need?

Hebrew National "answers to a higher authority" was the first commercial that pops into my mind.

Google is kosher food is marketed as healthier. You will find credible sources like Forbes and NPR stating the marketing strategy. Star K states how many consumers including me fell for it. There is a wealth of information supporting this.

No, not all food is safe according to the National Academy of Nutrition. There is a zero safe level for cottonseed oil. Zero safe level is not safe for consumption. It is allowed on the shelves because of politics. Read the history of Crisco.

I don't accept any internet bans for myself, and I am staunchly against strictures imposed for no logical reason but power and control games.

As I stated, ironically the foods the rebbenim are endorsing are worse than the foods the rebbenim are forbidding.


"we answer to a higher authority" is not a health claim. I don't know what the National Academy of Nutrition is. Do you mean the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics? or the The National Academy of Sciences? I think you are reading this.

http://agriculturesociety.com/.....nseed-oil/

a kosher symbol is not an endorsement of health - and ketniyot are not unhealthy. Rabbis are not nutritionists!!!. Why do you think they are?
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Squishy









  


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 5:57 pm
amother wrote:
"we answer to a higher authority" is not a health claim. I don't know what the National Academy of Nutrition is. Do you mean the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics? or the The National Academy of Sciences? I think you are reading this.

http://agriculturesociety.com/.....nseed-oil/

a kosher symbol is not an endorsement of health - and ketniyot are not unhealthy. Rabbis are not nutritionists!!!. Why do you think they are?


Hebrew National was making a health claim. I can't decide if you are deliberately being obtuse.

"No artificial flavors. No artificial colors. No fillers. No by-products. Made with premium cuts of 100% kosher beef. US inspected and passed by Department of Agriculture."

Kosher food is healthier is how it is marketed. I pulled one slogan off the top of my head. I can still hear the announcers deep voice making the claims. If you can't see the connection, then I feel very bad for you. As a child, I could see it. This slogan is so successful and obvious that the general public makes that connection. This slogan has been running since the mid sixties and one of the most successful advertising campaigns ever. 3/4 of the six million people who eat kosher hotdogs are not Jewish.

The kosher symbol is being marketed as the product being healthier which is why the overwhelming majority of dedicated consumers are not Jewish.

I don't believe that the Rabbis think keyniot are unhealthy. I think they know it is a custom that increases the cost of Pesach. Some call it a foolish one. I call it divisive. R' Feinstein ate peanuts and peanut oil. He said that potatoes were allowed because they weren't known 800 years ago and therefore peanuts are similarly allowed. I can't like this custom that divides Jews.

I also know Rabbis who are involved with koshruth organizations, not just those that sell their names, are familiar with nutrition.
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amother




Pearl


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 7:32 pm
Fot those who think canola oil is a healthier option, it isn't! It was originally developed as a lubricant for factory machinery.You should really research this.
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amother




Yellow


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 8:50 pm
Squishy wrote:
Hebrew National was making a health claim. I can't decide if you are deliberately being obtuse.

"No artificial flavors. No artificial colors. No fillers. No by-products. Made with premium cuts of 100% kosher beef. US inspected and passed by Department of Agriculture."

Kosher food is healthier is how it is marketed. I pulled one slogan off the top of my head. I can still hear the announcers deep voice making the claims. If you can't see the connection, then I feel very bad for you. As a child, I could see it. This slogan is so successful and obvious that the general public makes that connection. This slogan has been running since the mid sixties and one of the most successful advertising campaigns ever. 3/4 of the six million people who eat kosher hotdogs are not Jewish.

The kosher symbol is being marketed as the product being healthier which is why the overwhelming majority of dedicated consumers are not Jewish.

I don't believe that the Rabbis think keyniot are unhealthy. I think they know it is a custom that increases the cost of Pesach. Some call it a foolish one. I call it divisive. R' Feinstein ate peanuts and peanut oil. He said that potatoes were allowed because they weren't known 800 years ago and therefore peanuts are similarly allowed. I can't like this custom that divides Jews.

I also know Rabbis who are involved with koshruth organizations, not just those that sell their names, are familiar with nutrition.


You feel very bad for me? I feel bad for you that it took you to Pesach 5777 to learn that a hechsher doesn't equal healthy - "heimeish" or otherwise.

I hope your quest for healthier food for your family continues throughout the year. Tip 1 - stay away from deli rolls.
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Squishy









  


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 10:41 pm
amother wrote:
You feel very bad for me? I feel bad for you that it took you to Pesach 5777 to learn that a hechsher doesn't equal healthy - "heimeish" or otherwise.

I hope your quest for healthier food for your family continues throughout the year. Tip 1 - stay away from deli rolls.


I do feel very bad for you. When did I ever say a heimeshe hechsher means healthy? AFAIK it is the National hechshers that are promoting kosher = healthy. The heimishe would never eat Hebrew National.

I can admit I was duped along with 35,000,000 other folks. At least I can admit my mistakes, learn, and move forward.

Is deli roll on point to anything in this discussion? Since I don't care for it, I am safe from deli roll danger.
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amother




Firebrick


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 11:47 pm
Squishy wrote:
Kosher food is marketed as being healthier. It is a giant marketing ploy, and I was duped along with millions. 85% of the people who buy kosher due so because of this marketing. (The actual updated figure is slightly down from the one I used earlier in the thread. This may be due to the increased availability of Halal food which is a $20 billion industry and the fastest growing food segment according to Bloomberg.)

I know a couple of Rabbis who have hecherim, and they are paid for use of their name. They never visit the food plants. It is marketing. But I do expect those in the food industry to be aware of nutrition. How basic is that?

I feel betrayed and scared. I derived a lot of pleasure being able to turn out gourmet food Pesach for my family and guests. Shmutlz is better for you than trace pesticides, gmo, and petrochemical derived cr@p marketed as food.

I have never felt so shaken by my religion.


Which orthodox hechsher actually claims that kosher means healthier? Sorry, but it's not a marketing claim promoted by the orthodox rabbinate. It's just a misconception, like the idea that kosher means blessed by a rabbi.
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Ruchel









  


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 2:58 am
myself wrote:
I actually just checked my vinegar and it expires before Pesach next year. Despite the fact that it was purchased just before this Pesach.


That's so people buy another...

I just discussed with a chassidishe rebbetzin and most things you can keep, from matza to cakes to... many.
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Ruchel









  


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 3:35 am
Oh ftr we hold canola is kitniot, but some oils/products we hold is ok others don't. Cottonseed we don't find especially unhealthy, especially for a week. But we're not from nutritionist type culture.
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amother




Yellow


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 4:13 am
Squishy wrote:
I do feel very bad for you. When did I ever say a heimeshe hechsher means healthy? AFAIK it is the National hechshers that are promoting kosher = healthy. The heimishe would never eat Hebrew National.

I can admit I was duped along with 35,000,000 other folks. At least I can admit my mistakes, learn, and move forward.

Is deli roll on point to anything in this discussion? Since I don't care for it, I am safe from deli roll danger.


Squishy wrote:
feel betrayed and scared. derived a lot of pleasure being able to turn out gourmet food Pesach for my family and guests. Shmutlz is better for you than trace pesticides, gmo, and petrochemical derived cr@p marketed as food.

have never felt so shaken by my religion.


why the deli roll? Because since you feel betrayed and scared by Pesach food - I assumed that you know realize that this issue of cr@p kosher food is not limited to Pesach? Deli roll is one of those 'gourmet' items people serve that is anything but.

And sure - I understand Hebrew National's marketing schtick - I can also see that they don't directly make health claims. I'm happy that there is a perception that kosher = quality. I benefit from that as a consumer because there is demand for kosher. I also give consumers more credit that you do. A hechsher means that there is a very 'picky' set of eyes motioning the ingredients in the food - its an extra level of assurance that what the label says is in the product, is in the product... and for people who prefer to purchase kosher meat - there are two kosher things that matter to the general public (1) kosher method of slaughter is low pain (2) animal is checked for illness.

what did you mean by?
Squishy wrote:
The foods enjoyed as a girl do not carry a heimeshe hechsher, but they are a better choice
I read that as you were under the impression that your switch to using heimeshe hechshers in your adulthood was a better (from a health perspective) choice than eating your childhood foods, with non-heimeshe hechshers.
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thanks









  


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 4:14 am
amother wrote:
Fot those who think canola oil is a healthier option, it isn't! It was originally developed as a lubricant for factory machinery.You should really research this.

Canola oil is sometimes used as a lubricant. That says nothing about whether it is healthy. If you've done research, can you provide a link that explains why this is not a healthy oil? I'm seeing a lot of information about how canola is one of the healthier oils.
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water_bear88









  


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 4:27 am
Just a thought- I know I've read about wheat, corn, soy, rice, and cotton. Unless you make matza with it before further processing, which won't help those who avoid gebrochts, wheat is out- and the other traditionally edible crops on that list are all kitniyot. I assume that's why cottonseed oil is the go-to cheap option.

It's at least as legitimate to claim the USDA has harmed public health by promoting such an unvaried diet as nutritious as to claim that kashrut organizations are to blame for giving certification to unhealthy foods. Really, I think they're okaying cottonseed oil because poor Ashkenazim need something they can eat on Pesach. Dunno if it would be easier to get the US to subsidize olives or to get rabbanim as a group to allow soy or corn on Pesach.
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Squishy









  


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 5:23 pm
Squishy wrote:
feel betrayed and scared. derived a lot of pleasure being able to turn out gourmet food Pesach for my family and guests. Shmutlz is better for you than trace pesticides, gmo, and petrochemical derived cr@p marketed as food.

have never felt so shaken by my religion.


why the deli roll? Because since you feel betrayed and scared by Pesach food - I assumed that you know realize that this issue of cr@p kosher food is not limited to Pesach? Deli roll is one of those 'gourmet' items people serve that is anything but.

And sure - I understand Hebrew National's marketing schtick - I can also see that they don't directly make health claims. I'm happy that there is a perception that kosher = quality. I benefit from that as a consumer because there is demand for kosher. I also give consumers more credit that you do. A hechsher means that there is a very 'picky' set of eyes motioning the ingredients in the food - its an extra level of assurance that what the label says is in the product, is in the product... and for people who prefer to purchase kosher meat - there are two kosher things that matter to the general public (1) kosher method of slaughter is low pain (2) animal is checked for illness.

what did you mean by?
Squishy wrote:
The foods enjoyed as a girl do not carry a heimeshe hechsher, but they are a better choice
I read that as you were under the impression that your switch to using heimeshe hechshers in your adulthood was a better (from a health perspective) choice than eating your childhood foods, with non-heimeshe hechshers.




The general deli-roll is certainly not thought of as gourmet food. I did make an artisan one once, but I agree regular deli-roll is anything but.

When I attended a kosher food expo as a guest of a BD, OU's material spoke of how they market to the public as healthier. This was a value added to convince producers to purchase their certification. The public is not so discerning as you think.

BTW I keep seeing how cruel kosher slaughter is. http://investigations.peta.org.....ws-israel/

The pesach foods I enjoyed as a girl without the heimeshe hechsher are healthier. I switched to a heimeshe hechsher when I married a heimeshe guy. The quality of many of the foods are inferior to the national brands. Vegetables have too much salt and are over processed.
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greenfire









  


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 6:26 pm
that's why I don't buy any of this pesach crapola ... we can survive 8 days ... really

but as an aside - my brother bought 'gluten free' MATZAH MEAL ... I had to let him down saying it was basically potato starch - trickery/mislabeled in my opinion because if you do eat matzah meal - then you really want real matzah meal for your matzah ball tradition ... I personally don't eat gebrocht & I still wouldn't eat that garbage - it looked like broken down lady fingers

don't get me started on pesach ketchup either ... my 2½ nephew wouldn't go near it & I bought it for him


Last edited by greenfire on Fri, Apr 21 2017, 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ectomorph









  


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 6:29 pm
Squishy wrote:
I am sick, and I am angry! It is disgusting they don't label this cr@p masquerading as food with warnings.

There is no safe level to consume this garbage according to the natnoional academy of science. How can the Rabbis support this?

According to Bon Appetit cottonseed oil is one of the worst oils.

http://www.bonappetit.com/tren.....our-health

"Cottonseed oil has a high ratio of saturated fat and may also contain traces of pesticides used when farming cotton crops. Double-whammy!"
kashrut is about halacha not your feelings. It's not the rabbis responsibility to check if they're adding wood chips in the whole wheat bread, only to check if it's kosher. If you're so against cottonseed oil, don't buy it, and check products for it.

Pesach food is expensive and I appreciate manufacturers cutting costs where they can.
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ectomorph









  


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 6:31 pm
Squishy wrote:
Kosher food is marketed as being healthier. It is a giant marketing ploy, and I was duped along with millions. 85% of the people who buy kosher due so because of this marketing. (The actual updated figure is slightly down from the one I used earlier in the thread. This may be due to the increased availability of Halal food which is a $20 billion industry and the fastest growing food segment according to Bloomberg.)

I know a couple of Rabbis who have hecherim, and they are paid for use of their name. They never visit the food plants. It is marketing. But I do expect those in the food industry to be aware of nutrition. How basic is that?

I feel betrayed and scared. I derived a lot of pleasure being able to turn out gourmet food Pesach for my family and guests. Shmutlz is better for you than trace pesticides, gmo, and petrochemical derived cr@p marketed as food.

I have never felt so shaken by my religion.

Gmo is not unhealthy.
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Squishy









  


Post  Fri, Apr 21 2017, 6:49 pm
ectomorph wrote:
kashrut is about halacha not your feelings. It's not the rabbis responsibility to check if they're adding wood chips in the whole wheat bread, only to check if it's kosher. If you're so against cottonseed oil, don't buy it, and check products for it.

Pesach food is expensive and I appreciate manufacturers cutting costs where they can.


It is more than halacha. It is power, business, and politics. I accept a lot about religion that I know is wrong like protecting frum child molesters and abusing the victims. That never made me question my faith or my place.

This one so disgusts me that I need to process it. It is not solely cottonseed oil. The more I read, the more I see the Jewish people could be treated more respectfully.

Pesach is to the kosher food industry what x-mas is to retailers. Ok, that's not quite true. Pesach is twice as good as x-mas. x-mas is 20% off the annual revenues while Pesach is 40%.
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imasoftov









  


Post  Sat, Apr 22 2017, 1:38 pm
Squishy wrote:
Imitation vinegar is pure acetic acid (yes, petrochemical derived) and water. Why is this better for you than kitniyot?

I don't think either is healthier than the other, as both are a solution of acetic acid and water.
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