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Understanding the Mitzva of Bikur Cholim



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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 23 2017, 10:18 am
As many of you know I am currently sick with cancer (I truly appreciate all the tehillim that people are constantly saying for me http://tehilimyahad.com/mr.jsp?r=vhgilQ5p97 as well as all the women working on their Shmirat HaLashon in my zechut, and all the other maaseh tovim, and chala baking...)

But here's my question for this group (maybe you can recommend a book or just insight))
From the start of my illness I insisted that people not come visit nor drop off Potato kugels(just say tehillim please). B"H my husband and big children (I don't have very small anymore) take care of all our needs for now. (My kids have been cooking for Shabbat for years - they always liked to) My days are full with relatives and close friends dropping in. I'm not sitting alone waiting for guests to fill my time.

Then the "Bikur Cholim" people pop in out of nowhere. There are so many "Tzadikot" who "MUST go visit her since she's sick". People show up whenever they want. They interupt conversations with people who I have asked to come (and once they come in they they feel like they're joining a public group (it's a "Bikur Cholim" group), so they sit and stay for as long as they're comfortable chatting with the crowd.
By the end of the day I'm exhausted and I've offended so many people who wanted to visit (cause they have to). And what about the very very old friends who I've really lost touch with (and really have very little in common with) who MUST come see their sick childhood friend. Bikur Cholim. Are they coming for me or themselves? If we haven't spoke in years cause we're not interested, what's the point in their visit?? It's a mitzva!! My kids keep telling me I should be nicer when people come to visit (even surprise).

I'm the sick one, why am I exhausted from entertaining "well meaners" all day?

I'm trying to understand this Bikur Cholim mitzva. Do I get he mitzva for allowing these people to visit me?
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myself




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 23 2017, 10:26 am
Big Hugs Sanguine, I totally get you. Can your family let 'everyone' know that you're not up to visitors? When I was ill at one time, that's what we did. Those who knew me personally called to see if they could come and I either said yes or no. Others were told I was not up to it. Can you do that?
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Zeleze




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 23 2017, 10:35 am
Just write a note on the door not to come in a nice way

I am sure then mean good and not to harm you

Refua Shelema soon
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 23 2017, 10:37 am
I am so sorry for all you have been enduring!
As an introvert, I understand.

Would you be comfortable leaving messages on your home phone and cell phone "Thank you for calling. Kindly note that sanguine is not accepting visitors at this times. Please free to leave a message after the tone."
Write something similar on the household door and hospital room door.

We are continuing to daven for you Michal bat Esther Miriam.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 23 2017, 10:43 am
Everyone suggests that but it does't work. There are many "exceptions". It's funny how I've "scared off" so much of my community. Local people finally come and tell me how hard they worked at finding the right person to ask if the can visit.

It's the "unexpected visitors" who heard by chance and come running.
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Cmon be nice




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 23 2017, 11:03 am
It's probably similar to a shiva visit. People feel obligated to come ; in fact misakim publishes lists all for the mitzva I assume. Refua shleima
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 23 2017, 11:20 am
Maybe appoint a point person for visitors and food. Her number should be listed on all doors and voicemails. She can be firm about what is good for you and what is not when people call.
Hug
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myself




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 23 2017, 11:22 am
Can you just not answer the door? Or have whomever it is that is opening the door say that you're not up it?

ETA: Please don't feel forced to have visitors you don't want. Your health comes first!!!
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 23 2017, 11:38 am
When someone comes, have a rule in your house that they must receive permission to enter before crossing the threshold.

Your refuah and rest are most important. The Halacha is to respect that. If someone were to fly to your house from Timbuktu and you were tired, the mitzvah for them would be to say a tefilla for your recovery. They could also ask if they could be of help. That's it.
Your recovery is paramount.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 23 2017, 1:37 pm
I live in a culture where it's the opposite. Strangers will NOT come. Friends will come if openly wanted/asked. It's common to have only family, be it when sick, or lehavdil shiva, especially on the first days. It sounds like a nightmare to me to have to receive people when you're already struggling.
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SYA




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 23 2017, 2:03 pm
Put a sign on the door that people should not to ring the buzzer, and that you are currently not up to visitors. They should call x (someone who you appoint, who will be firm in stating you're not up to visitors and won't give in to pressure.)

Keep the front door always locked, and when someone knocks, check through the peephole who it is. Without opening the door, you can tell them either you're not up to visitors or blame it on the doctor (he said I cannot have visitors at this time. Please call before you decide to drop by next time.)

I prayed for you when I took challah this past Shabbos, and every time I lit the candles on YT and Shabbos.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 24 2017, 8:01 am
Every situation is different. I spend most my day in my recliner facing the front door (I can't move on my own) . I live in a yishuv so my door is mostly unlocked with my kids and friends running in and out. Neighbors drop by here. They say hello and I can say goodbye. My problem is with people who come from far to do their duty of bikur Cholim. Those are the people who have no current connection with me (even relatives) and assume that since they heard I was sick, I must me sitting home waiting for them to pop in and rescue me. That's what I don't want. What Sefer teaches people the mitzva of bikur cholim?

I'm going to stop my ranting now and start working on appreciating all the good people who are thinking of me and taking time to cook or drop by.

Thank you for all the suggestions.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 24 2017, 3:40 pm
thank you for bringing this point up ... people should certainly learn the true mitzva of bikur cholim & that it is to help the sick person & not rack up points or notches in their mitzva belt

sometimes this means leaving them alone

perhaps there is some sign you can put up and/or message on your phone ...

'please don't visit me for a mitzva ... visit me if you love me'
[and if you're in my everyday life]
your kind prayers are always Welcome



Sanguine ~ you are in my prayers Hug
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Blessing1




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 24 2017, 6:14 pm
Don't people call to ask before they come visit???? If not, enforce it. And whoever didn't call please don't feel bad sending them away! U shouldn't exhaust yourself "hosting" people all day!
Refua Shleima bekarov!
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sneakermom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 24 2017, 9:53 pm
A relative of mine is struggling with the same issue. He's sick in the hospital and finds himself entertaining guests!

Certain people are welcome. Those that are very close and when they come there is no pressure to be perky, or schmooze. The choleh gets excited to see true loved ones and they can hang about on stand by and help with whatever is needed.

A person needs to be honest with themselves. If they are not that close ask before visiting and keep the visit short. Shorter than you imagine. If the choleh wants they can always ask you to stay longer.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 25 2017, 4:49 am
I would love to reconnect with friends or relatives. Even if life circumstances have pulled us apart.
People are busy nowadays and yeah I might not have time to randomly visit people who live across the country. Doesn't mean I don't love them. But that is me. Everyone is different. The people visiting you obviously would appreciate you visiting them if they were sick.

my husband hates having visitors in hospital. So he assumed I am the same! And I would be lying there all lonely not realising my husband was tellling people not to visit. LOL

However, I would not drop by people without asking. Although sometimes, ime, people will say they don't want visitors when you call, but then get upset that no one visited them.

Refuah shleima! Please share good news.
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sped




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 25 2017, 5:52 am
My father A"H used to tell visitors a story about his R"Y who had "choshuv" visitors Friday night after major surgery. His R"Y said to them, "I know why I am here - I have visitors. But why are you here so late?"

ANd DF's visitors STILL didn't get it and would stay on.
The best visitor we had was a cousin who walk all the way to the hospital on Shabbos, say "Good Shabbos", a very short d'var Torah, and leave. He was there less than 5 minutes in all.
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5mom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 25 2017, 6:47 am
Refuah sheleima, I'm davening for you.

What about using a patient website like CaringBridge? You can post updates and visiting hours (or non-visiting hours) and this way people know what's happening without showing up in person. (Of course, you are not protected from the types who believe that the rules don't apply to them, but isn't that always the case?)

Also, as the patient, you are absolutely allowed to say, "Thanks for visiting, but now I'd like to take a nap. Next time, please check before coming."
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 27 2017, 12:33 pm
I would like to update you. As I said, I really have a tough advanced cancer that doesn't follow any of the regular treatments.
None of the chemos have responded till now.
Well... This week the doctor said something is happening with this chemo. I see it and everyone who sees me says it too. I'm slowly getting stronger. It's a real positive thing.

I'm positive that I must thank all the people who have been saying all the Tehillim for me and working on their shmirat halashon and all the other mitzvot in my zchut.

I really feel like my situation is improving because Hashem is hearing all your tfillot.

Thank you
Please keep it up.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 27 2017, 8:57 pm
Sanguine wrote:
I would like to update you. As I said, I really have a tough advanced cancer that doesn't follow any of the regular treatments.
None of the chemos have responded till now.
Well... This week the doctor said something is happening with this chemo. I see it and everyone who sees me says it too. I'm slowly getting stronger. It's a real positive thing.

I'm positive that I must thank all the people who have been saying all the Tehillim for me and working on their shmirat halashon and all the other mitzvot in my zchut.

I really feel like my situation is improving because Hashem is hearing all your tfillot.

Thank you
Please keep it up.




Hooray
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