"Challenges are to make you grow" ????

amother

Salmon

Mon, May 08 2017, 5:47 pm

I feel like I heard this message "challenges are to make you grow", and "hashem loves you and chose you...." in abundance, growing up. In school, in seminary, at shiurim, this was the message I heard alot.

I listened closely to lessons regarding challenges. I dealt with them practically from when I was a baby, and so I hung onto every single one of these words, in desperate hope to find some sort of meaning in my life, in my struggles.

Much water has crossed under the bridge since then. For many people I'm sure this message works. But it didn't work for me. Frankly, I think it's BS. I think that if you are able to find meaning in your challenges because of this, GRAB HOLD OF IT , because we all need to find meaning in our lives.

We're all entitled to our feelings, right? So here's my feelings. This message was downright insulting to me. To me, this message borders on abusiveness. It was like, "oh yeah, because hashem loves you soooo much, he picked YOU out of everyone so that YOU could grow!!!!!!" It was confusing (why was I "better" than the next person? How does love = pain anyway?) It was definite (black and white, this is the way it is) It was giving reasons when there were none. To sum up, it was a cruel joke to play.

It bothered me for years. I worked through alot of my past in therapy. I did alot of soul-searching and have replaced these messages. I've found meaning in my life, and no, I never did find out "why" I had to go through what I went through. I accept it though, as part of life. But I don't begin to explain that the reason I went through this is because I should grow and become better. Because, you know what? I didn't grow. I didn't become better. I hated my life and caused alot of harm. Here's another myth they taught me: if you get a challenge it's because hashem knows you are capable, and can handle it. You know what? I couldn't handle it. My relationship with hashem was messy - he's meant to be this loving father in heaven, but he specially choose me to be in this horrible situation because he loves me. So his display of love is by putting me in a tough situation, so that I should grow and become closer to him and get olam habah. Oh and lets not forget, it's all for my sake too. I don't want anything to do with a father that treats me like that!! Don't hurt me for my sake!! It's guilt tripping, that's what it is. It's having your arm twisted behind your back. All for my good....all for my good....all for my good.

<end>

Today I understand that life happens, and life just is. Things are what they are. People just do what they know how to do. Nobody is better or worse for the life they lead or the challenges they have. Sometimes we grow, sometimes we fall. Sometimes we hurt ourselves or others but I try to just worry and take responsibility for myself. Hashem - just is. I don't know him, or what he is but I don't make up reasons for his behaviour. I feel his power when I feel the wind on my cheeks, when I hear my baby cry in the next room, when I stop and look in the mirror and know I've survived against all odds. Hashem - just is. I have my challenges, because that's just life, because everyone has them. Do I try to grow from them? I don't know, but I do try to deal with them because if I don't, nobody else will. Turns out, I'll be the miserable one if I don't deal with life on life's terms. But then again, this is the language that speaks to me: life on life's terms. It's simple, it's grounding, it just is.

So, I thought I'd bring it up here. Does anyone else feel like me?

MitzadSheini

Mon, May 08 2017, 5:53 pm

It sounds like you actually have grown from your challenges.

But I agree with a lot of what you wrote.

amother

Crimson

Mon, May 08 2017, 6:00 pm

I very much feel the same regarding this topic.

Through a certain challenge I'm dealing with, I had someone tell me "You have to belive that Hashem loves you...Bla bla bla". I however choose to leave Hashem out of the picture for now. That's because I don't want to hurt my Spirituality more than necessary. I like to think of my challenge as part of the natural way the world works, that sometimessage bad people hurt others and leave them without hope or dignity.

Hashem must be doing this for a reason but since nobodys telling me the reason I prefer not to associate this challenge with Hashem. I do however think of Hashem when good things happen, though I've lost my faith that "He'll always come through in the end".

amother

Mistyrose

Mon, May 08 2017, 6:07 pm

I hear you, and I agree with much of it, with some modifications.

I view it as "life on Hashem's terms, whatever they might be" because "it is what it is".

"Thy will, not mine be done." It is so so hard to live with the knowledge that none of it makes sense, and to experience the platitudes of childhood fall far short in the face of reality.

I agree with the poster who says you did grow from your challenges. What is acceptance (sans denial) if not growth?

amother

Seagreen

Mon, May 08 2017, 7:16 pm

I don't know. When Hashem answered Iyov in the end he certainly didn't say "I gave you those challenges because I love you and to help you grow" . His answer is usually understood as saying that this topic can not be understood and explained to someone with finite intellectual abilities.

So while I don't think Hashem only give challenges to make people grow there is a strong element of truth in it And while it is true that people who are challenged frequently don't do as well as those who aren't and sometimes fail it is very likely that they are still better and grew more than those who had easier lives. And that Hashem loves them more

SixOfWands

Mon, May 08 2017, 7:26 pm

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I do not, cannot and will not believe in a Gd who shows His love by torturing us.

Or as Khalil Gibran said,

Quote:

I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to those teachers.

PinkFridge

Mon, May 08 2017, 7:57 pm

There is a marvelous book, and I feel it is disingenuous of me to recommend it without having finished it, so I will reopen it. I think I can still recommend it. It's called, Making Sense of Suffering by Rabbi Yitzchak Kirzner, zt"l.

Also, I have heard this thought: We know that a nisayon is a situation that we are put in for our growth. But sometimes we are put in difficult situations that are NOT nisyonos. We are not meant to transcend and grow as much as endure. (See Rabbi Kirnzer's book.)

We will only know in retrospect, seldom in this world, whether a situation is a nisayon or just something to endure for whatever reason Hashem has in mind. (Because once I believe in G-d I believe in One who is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, but it's possible this is a digression.) We have to act as if the situation is a nisayon and try to transcend. But we can't castigate ourselves if we don't seem to "pass the test."

I don't know if this is helpful to anyone, but it's what's worked for me over the years.

amother

Apricot

Mon, May 08 2017, 9:44 pm

I'm with you Pinkfridge. Sometimes challenges are for growth and sometimes not. Having the idea that every test is there for growth shoved down your throats is not exactly helpful.
On the flip side, it's important to believe there IS a reason for everything that happens. Even if we'll never know it. No such thing as random, and yes, every part of our lives was custom made for us.

amother

Orange

Mon, May 08 2017, 10:39 pm

amother wrote:

But how do you believe everything happens for a reason while acknowledging you don't understand it on any level? Is that really called "believing"?

amother

Mistyrose

Mon, May 08 2017, 11:01 pm

amother wrote:

But how do you believe everything happens for a reason while acknowledging you don't understand it on any level? Is that really called "believing"?

It's called acceptance.

amother

Apricot

Tue, May 09 2017, 12:36 am

amother wrote:

But how do you believe everything happens for a reason while acknowledging you don't understand it on any level? Is that really called "believing"?

Of course that's believing.
Like they say, if I could really understand God, I would be Him.

amother

Pumpkin

Tue, May 09 2017, 12:50 am

We cannot say for sure that a challenge was intended to make you grow. We can say that if life sends you a challenge, you may as well take it as an opportunity for growth.

sequoia

Tue, May 09 2017, 12:55 am

I agree with OP, amother crimson, and SixOfWands.

Ruchel

Tue, May 09 2017, 7:34 am

Sometimes it's a grow, sometimes a kappara, sometimes a lesson...

Never tell someone his challenge is ______. You can tell yours is.

PinkFridge

Tue, May 09 2017, 8:26 am

amother wrote:

We cannot say for sure that a challenge was intended to make you grow. We can say that if life sends you a challenge, you may as well take it as an opportunity for growth.

Yes. And as Ruchel says, this is what one tells oneself, not another.
Look, I just davened. I believe the words are real, tangible. When I say Yishtabach, I am affirming that yes, oz and memshala in Hashem's hands is a good thing, a necessary thing. And that the affirmation of "Ani Hashem Elokeichem" is emes, yatziv, nachon, etc. When one says Shiras Hayam one should be happy: if I ever need a screen saver to my life, some happy positive imagery, that's it.

Have I been tested in life? Somewhat. And I believe that very few people get to my age and remain superficial, whether it's what one has experienced directly in life, or observed in others' lives. I know I haven't been through anything near what someone of our members have, and I can only hope and pray that if I should go through something tougher, that I be able to endure and still cherish life and its opportunities.

amother

Amethyst

Tue, May 09 2017, 10:28 am

This is the timeold question of Tzadik Vra lo. Why does a rightious person have it bad?
While the rasha is having a great life.
The best expelantion to me is that this world is temporary. How long will we spend here 80 ir 90 years.in the next world we will get back for the hardships here.

FranticFrummie

Tue, May 09 2017, 10:50 am

I believe that there are reasons, and I accept that I may never know all the reasons. If I didn't, I would lose my mind.

What your teachers didn't tell you, is that growth HURTS! That is where they did you a disservice. They didn't finish the sentence, they didn't give you the whole, honest truth.

I watch a lot of nature documentaries. I find them soothing and reassuring. Recently, I was watching one about Australia. Such a strange place! There is a type of fruit that is so big that only the giant bird, the cassowary, can swallow it. If left on it's own, the fruit has only a 19% germination rate. Once it's been eaten and the seed is "deposited" out the other end, it has a 92% germination rate. I can't think of too many things more unpleasant than travelling through the digestive tract of a cassowary, but that is what is needed for this plant to grow.

Another type of flower can only germinate after devastating forest fires. The heat cracks the incredibly hard shell, and the ash in the soil makes the perfect conditions for the new seedling to thrive. Not only that, there are no other plants around to compete for light and nutrients. These flowers then change the pH of the soil, so that eventually other plants can return to growth.

If a seed was self-aware, it would be terrified of change and growth! But a seed has no conscious awareness of it's maker. Only we have that privilege. I think that what separates us from the rest of the natural world, what makes us human, is that we are the only ones who question our Creator.