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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children
Dd wants sherut leumi instead of Touro
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amother
Plum


 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 6:26 am
I have two friends who told me that due to lack of medical oversight, both their dds almost died during sem and had to leave back to the States for good that year. They both developed pneumonia, and this is related to my dd,s condition. She is highly dependent on antibiotics...nebach.

I'm not too concerned that she won't apply herself in college. She will, based on high school. She works hard, but is VERY immature regarding the ways of the world. She is totally naive about the way men are and thinks it's fine to hang out with boys (she doesn't really have access now, so that's not happening, but in Israel...oy). I realize she is an adult (chronologically) but she'll still listen. Her friend that is doing SL, is really heading off the derech, even though she is a sweet girl. Not someone I want her 6000 miles away with.

I know the Touro environment would be far more wholesome, even in NY. My dd wants to do the right thing and has shared with me her struggles regarding tznius/frumkeit. I know when I was in NYC, it took less than a week to figure out how to conduct myself on the street to not get unwanted attention. Hopefully, she will develop street smarts quickly.

Many people have asked me about shidduchim for her but it's not something she is interested in as she says she is not ready, and I really agree with her. She is not sure who she is yet. I really feel going to Israel and SL, would be beyond something she could handle well right now. I'm grateful she will still listen to me and trust me, for the most part. I really hear from some comments that my concerns with SL are valid. Also, the distance and complete lack of support there is an issue. No, she doesn't speak Hebrew...understands some.

I feel like if she wants Israel when she is a bit more mature, then maybe she would be ready for Bar Ilan, but she isn't yet.

I'm not bashing on Israeli healthcare, but for my dd, the States are better for what she has. Also, because we know the system here so well.
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amother
Papaya


 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 6:38 am
There is no issue with sheirut leumi (if they will accept her that is with her condition) . I just feel bad you want her to be near you and that you spent that money on the deposit. You sound like such a giving mom, why does she want to run away from home?
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 6:49 am
amother wrote:
I have two friends who told me that due to lack of medical oversight, both their dds almost died during sem and had to leave back to the States for good that year. They both developed pneumonia, and this is related to my dd,s condition. She is highly dependent on antibiotics...nebach.


I understand your concerns. A girl who can't speak Hebrew isn't likely to be accepted for sherut leumi, anyhow.

But just two things: first, she can get up to the same trouble in New York as in Israel.

Second, whatever went on with your friends' daughters sounds like the fault of the seminaries, not of the Israeli health system.
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amother
Pearl


 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 7:20 am
Just FYI, if you think tuoro will be like another year of seminary, I don't think there is a lot of oversight at the dorms. As much as it's a frum college she will still have freedom there which you seem very afraid of. She may end up talking to boys, but she's 20 now maybe she will end up dating one of them at some point.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 7:44 am
OP, from your post I got the impression that your DD is more grown-up that you give her credit for. Not many 19-year-olds have the courage to pick up and go to another country, yet her mother is worried about her going to NYC.

It sounds like she wants something different for herself than what you imagined, and she is trying to make a break from the plans you have laid out for her.

I think you should explore these options with her.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 12:56 pm
Sheirut leumi is a mixed bag - you live in apartments with 10-12 other girls with 3-4 per bedroom and a small shared living space, most of which will be Israelis who don't speak English, and they treat their apartment like a hotel room (e.g. dont' take good care of it or do much chores) because they have homes to go to every weekend, but for your dd that will be her home. Many of the Americans I know who did sheirut leumi hated it.

That being siad, have you talked to her about why she really wants to do it? Or why she really isn't interested in Touro?
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nylon




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 1:01 pm
I think the issue with medical care isn't so much quality--it's navigating it as an 18 year old newcomer with no help. it takes some experience and guidance to learn how to get the best experience out of a new health system, and that's before any language issues (even if she has a decent conversational Hebrew, she may not have the medical terms).
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amother
Amethyst


 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 1:23 pm
If Shabbat is not saying don't walk run to Israel , hayom thats a major red flag, so I defer to her..

But


I know the Touro environment would be far more wholesome, even in NY. My dd wants to do the right thing and has shared with me her struggles regarding tznius/frumkeit. I know when I was in NYC, it took less than a week to figure out how to conduct myself on the street to not get unwanted attention. Hopefully, she will develop street smarts quickly.





Rolling Laughter Rolling Laughter Rolling Laughter

I saw more boys in Touro then Montclair, NYU or Towson...

Cute ones.. LOL
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treestump




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 1:32 pm
I've been following your posts and I still don't understand why you're writing this as though this is your decision and not your daughter's.

Your daughter is 19. She's an adult and you're talking about her life choices here. I understand you're worried and concerned, but these need to be her decisions, not yours.

You write that "She works hard, but is VERY immature regarding the ways of the world. She is totally naive about the way men are and thinks it's fine to hang out with boys (she doesn't really have access now, so that's not happening, but in Israel...oy). I realize she is an adult (chronologically) but she'll still listen."

If you treat her like a child and try to keep her in a bubble you created, then she won't be able to mature and become an adult. This is what she needs to learn on her own.

Btw, I have many friends who went to Touro, and let me tell you - Touro is no protective bubble. Girls can have as much "fun" there as they can in Israel, trust me.
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amother
Plum


 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 1:39 pm
She just told me that her friend found out you have to make aliyah to do SL, so now her friend isn't going. Not my problem though. I know she can talk to boys anywhere, which I can't control. I've accepted that for now, she is holding MO, and who knows if she will get stronger or weaker. Again, not in my control. I very much want her to have marketable job skills, hence Touro (it's Lander so it is different than Flatbush/Brooklyn). She mentioned again she wants to explore programming (she IS pragmatic) to see if she has aptitude for it.

Why does she not want to live at home? We live OOT and all the girls her age are either OTD or in high school, because the frum ones go away to sem or Stern/Touro. I think she knows it would not be the best thing for her; I agree, although I miss her very much.

If I left it totally up to her, she would go for a sem bais at a very left-wing school in EY because lots of her high school age friends will be there to play with, which gets her nowhere and which we are not paying another year for. So, I'm very much controlling what we will pay for, based on our being her parents, but ultimately she decides.

Yes, I agree the other girls' health issues were from lack of oversight on the part of the sems, but that is why we weren't comfortable with that scenario.
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amother
Plum


 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 1:43 pm
Believe me, the place she's at this year has very little supervision, so she is used to that. I really don't think sending my dd to NYC is putting her in a protective bubble:)) She needs to focus on being able to support herself and she herself said she would not do well in a secular college (I agree). She just really wants to delay adulthood with another year of FUN. But it's our money, so NO, she cannot do whatever she wants since she has no money. She's fully aware she could work at a low paying job and do whatever she wants but is smarter than that.
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 1:51 pm
amother wrote:

. She is totally naive about the way men are and thinks it's fine to hang out with boys


So teach her about men - or find her a mentor. I'm not sure what I mean by that... what do you mean by "way men are"?

And she is almost 20 and MO. Hanging out with boys is normal. By hanging out - I mean in groups, nothing physical.
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amother
Plum


 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 1:58 pm
She just recently turned 19 and has a BY background, so it's been quite a journey for her (and us adjusting). Yes, she means hanging out in groups and since there is nothing I can do about that....I took her to speak with a lady she admires in the community who spoke to her about shidduchim and that revealed she is completely not interested. By not "knowing" how "men are." I mean (and I feel weird saying this, but many people comment to me about her) she is very, very beautiful and she thinks it's "funny" how guys become tongue-tied and stupid around her. I've told her that's not funny and be VERY careful how you present yourself, because they think very differently. It is just something one needs life experience to get really.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 2:17 pm
Again, I am getting the impression that she does not want to fit into the mold you keep trying to squish her into.

She wants to put some distance between herself and her home; to grow and become more independent.

BTW, you can do sherut leumi if you are not a citizen, although the benefits are not the same:
https://www.herenextyearisrael.....leumi
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treestump




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 2:28 pm
amother wrote:
She just recently turned 19 and has a BY background, so it's been quite a journey for her (and us adjusting). Yes, she means hanging out in groups and since there is nothing I can do about that....I took her to speak with a lady she admires in the community who spoke to her about shidduchim and that revealed she is completely not interested. By not "knowing" how "men are." I mean (and I feel weird saying this, but many people comment to me about her) she is very, very beautiful and she thinks it's "funny" how guys become tongue-tied and stupid around her. I've told her that's not funny and be VERY careful how you present yourself, because they think very differently. It is just something one needs life experience to get really.


Ok, just a question since you mention she's naive. Does she know basic s-x ed? Like always using condoms, s-x safety, etc., consent, etc.?
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amother
Coral


 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 3:18 pm
I also have a medical condition. It's pretty serious, I have to keep on top of it all the time. One of the best gifts my parents gave to me was allowing me to come to Israel for Shana Bet. I was struggling in finding myself too, and coming to Israel was the best thing that happened to me. I also went to therapy whilst I was here, which helped me to come to accept myself better.

If your daughter wants to go to shana bet in Israel, and you want her to study, perhaps you can combine the two, and she can begin studying in Touro in Israel whilst attending Shana Bet of her choice.
Or, there's another program on the Neve campus that is Shana Bet plus college. They have classes there and earn a degree through Thomas Edison State Uni / I forget the other option. She could major in psychology and go on from there to get her Masters in Art therapy. It's actually a great option and sounds something that may be good for your daughter. She could attend a Shana-bet program on the campus. The neve campus is beautiful. It's a great place for growth and self reflection. Plus, it's open-minded..

It sounds like she can do with a year in Israel, to find herself, to sort through her issues. It could be a wise option to take, but the wisdom would include finding the right place together with her. I wonder if she'd be interested in an option such as shana bet on neve campus (rinat tzipporah) and taking the Maalot college option.

Also, I want to point out, that medical issues can totally be sorted out in Israel. I went to Shana bet in israel with a medical condition, and I know other people who did the same. It's not a big deal, and frankly, SHE is the one living with it, not you. She needs to learn to deal with it without you. Totally, without you.
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 3:21 pm
amother wrote:
I also have a medical condition. It's pretty serious, I have to keep on top of it all the time. One of the best gifts my parents gave to me was allowing me to come to Israel for Shana Bet. I was struggling in finding myself too, and coming to Israel was the best thing that happened to me. I also went to therapy whilst I was here, which helped me to come to accept myself better.

If your daughter wants to go to shana bet in Israel, and you want her to study, perhaps you can combine the two, and she can begin studying in Touro in Israel whilst attending Shana Bet of her choice.
Or, there's another program on the Neve campus that is Shana Bet plus college. They have classes there and earn a degree through Thomas Edison State Uni / I forget the other option. She could major in psychology and go on from there to get her Masters in Art therapy. It's actually a great option and sounds something that may be good for your daughter. She could attend a Shana-bet program on the campus. The neve campus is beautiful. It's a great place for growth and self reflection. Plus, it's open-minded..

It sounds like she can do with a year in Israel, to find herself, to sort through her issues. It could be a wise option to take, but the wisdom would include finding the right place together with her. I wonder if she'd be interested in an option such as shana bet on neve campus (rinat tzipporah) and taking the Maalot college option.

Also, I want to point out, that medical issues can totally be sorted out in Israel. I went to Shana bet in israel with a medical condition, and I know other people who did the same. It's not a big deal, and frankly, SHE is the one living with it, not you. She needs to learn to deal with it without you. Totally, without you.


but did you talk to boys? Wink
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 10 2017, 11:20 pm
Sherut leumi is hard. Definitely not a year of play time. The "easy" jobs are things like full-time secretarial work (but basically without pay), the harder jobs are things like working 18-hour days taking care of deeply traumatized children in halfway homes.

But OP, are you sure your daughter is looking for fun and escape?

You say she's scared to go to NYC, but she wants to come to Israel. You say she doesn't want hard work, but she's talking about volunteering for a year. You say she'll make friends easily "as she always does," but also that this last year was difficult for her socially. You say it's strange that she still has friends in high school, but also that all the girls her age where you live are either OTD or in high school.

Basically there seems to be a bit of a disconnect here.

I'm not saying that in an accusing kind of way. It sounds like she's going through a lot of change. And that even she doesn't quite know what she wants, or isn't ready to say.

I think what's needed - and this is just my humble opinion as someone who doesn't know you or your dd - is to get some clarity on how your dd sees herself now, and what her goals are for herself. What would she want if none of the practical concerns (finances, medical care, etc) were an issue? Why would she want it?

She's still young and it's natural that she doesn't fully understand herself and doesn't fully know what she wants to do. You can most help her not by deciding for her (even if you're 100% right that Touro is her best option), but by helping her decide for herself. Talk to her about it without shooting down any of her ideas as unrealistic (if it's unrealistic, ask her how she'd make it work; let her come to the conclusion on her own that it's not realistic), ask her the important questions that she might not think to ask.

Even if she does end up at Touro, it will be a much better experience if she goes in having actively decided for herself that Touro is her best option, than if she goes in feeling like her parents chose it for her.
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amother
Plum


 

Post Fri, May 12 2017, 2:50 pm
Ora..43.....to clarify a bit. I know it sounds like a lot of disconnect and I don't want to reveal dd's identity. She is getting excited about Touro (now SL is kind of off the table since I started this thread due to her realizing it entails aliyah) as she has about 4 friends there from her former high school. Suffice it to say, she has all the friends she wants (about 5 or 6) at sem this year because frankly, the other girls are loud, party (drink, hookah, swear,etc.) and she is very turned off by this (B"H). She really has very good middos and doesn't want to fit into that. So her friends are fun girls, but more "mainstream." She would describe herself as kind of JAPPY. What I meant by the girls in our city. Girls go away to sem and then go to Stern, Touro, stay for part of shana bet in EY, or work and start shidduchim in NY. Rarely do they come back unless they have family in the yeshiva system here to give them a job until they get married. Some of the MO girls make aliyah. The ones that stay here are generally moving away from Yiddishkeit, especially if they are in secular college. The campus Jewish programs are bacchanalian with the drinking and hooking-up. Staying here doesn't work for frum girls unless they come back married, but few choose that unless they have lots of family here in kiruv.

So today I asked if she could do anything she wants next year, what would it be?? She said lay on the beach and work on my tan (haha). So you are correct, she does not know who she is. She says she is MO and keeps different kashrus when she's not at home (all within halacha). Fine by me. She very much wants to live in LA because she loves the weather. She does not understand that having no money in LA is no fun and she would go OTD at a secular college (not much doubt in my mind about that). She wants to be frum, but much less than the way she was raised.

I think she would jump at the chance for a shana bet and I'm starting to look at it online. She really liked Rabbi Fix when he came to her highschool from Tomer Devorah. I think Touro would take those credits. Also, Neve is interesting. Now that she is getting excited about NY ( the girls... not the work of college) I really don't think I want to derail her enthusiasm with something I feel so uncertain about.
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