Proper swimming etiquette

Teomima

Sun, May 21 2017, 6:42 am

mddm wrote:

Are you comfortable with her lookin at naked women in pictures (with the same logic) ???
Why should it make a difference if it is in person?

That's not the same logic at all. No one is talking about going to a locker room with the specific intention of seeing other naked women. You're there to change clothes. So is everyone else. You just happen to see them/they just happen to see you. People (ideally) still abide by basic etiquette and (hopefully) nobody is staring. That's a far cry from intentionally looking at pictures of naked women. There's no comparison.

mddm

Sun, May 21 2017, 7:02 pm

Zeleze wrote:

Not going to to say how I feel/do at home or in Public, but he in EY Erev Yom Kipur this happens at all Yerushalmi Mikves I'v been to the last 4/5 years.
No one really looks, or so I would wish but most just dunk in front of all types and ages, and get back home the quicker they can.

And I too do the same (on that specific day), when thats the Norm, I feel less ashamed.

I had heard from a friend that goes Erev Yom Kippur in Lakewood, but didn't get the details.
It's done communally like I hear from my DH happens by the men?
It's multiple women in the Bor at once?
I give you credit for going!!

FranticFrummie

Sun, May 21 2017, 7:38 pm

I find it to be a generational thing, and a cultural thing. Older women are more at home in their bodies. They've been in them longer, and are more comfortable with themselves. Also, I've found Russian women in particular just don't care, and go about their business with no thought about who sees them. I've never seen anyone either staring or blushing.

I'm fine if DD sees naked women. I dress quickly and modestly around her, but she is completely fine with getting out of the shower, and then standing around talking to me without a towel on. I'm the one who tells her to go get dressed, and then come back to finish the conversation.

I would also have no problem taking her to an art gallery, where there were classical paintings and marble statues of nude women.

I used to go with some friends to a Korean health spa, where swim suits were not allowed. To use the saunas and pools, you had to be nude, and they gave you a thin white cotton robe when you wanted to go from one room to another. Most of the women didn't even bother with the robe most of the time. I would have taken DD with us, but you had to be 16 and over, (and not on your period) in order to go.

sequoia

Sun, May 21 2017, 8:15 pm

Traditionally, people have always gone to single-gender bathouses where everybody was naked. In every single culture with any hygiene at all. (So like, not the Middle Ages). This trend of being shy around people of the same s-x is the newest, most modern thing imaginable. It's a function of private bathrooms.

MagentaYenta

Sun, May 21 2017, 10:18 pm

sequoia wrote:

Good catch. I'd quite forgotten the prominence of public baths. In Yafa Eliach's opus, There Once was a World, there are numerous mentions of the bath houses of Eishyshok. (One of the community concerns was wood to heat the water for the bath houses and Mikveh.)

mddm

Sun, May 21 2017, 10:41 pm

OP here... I've learned that many people are totally comfortable being nude in front of other woman, some don't mind their daughters being exposed to naked ladies and others share the sentiment of discomfort and modesty and do their best to stay covered at all times.
Those that are comfortable with nudity, do they carry that over to their homes and children and allow them to enter their bedroom or bathroom where they might find their mother in an exposed state?

MagentaYenta

Sun, May 21 2017, 10:45 pm

mddm wrote:

What do you consider 'an exposed state'? Underwear? Panties but no bra? Bra but no panties? A slip? I never made a big deal of it, and yes, my children were permitted in my bedroom after knocking and gaining permission to enter. And sometimes I even asked them to go to my room and get me something.

amother

Gold

Sun, May 21 2017, 11:00 pm

mddm wrote:

OP - this is a matter of personal comfort. Where is this line of questioning leading? In your home you do what makes sense to you from your own sense of personal boundaries and understanding of Tzniut.

amother

Maroon

Mon, May 22 2017, 12:06 am

mddm wrote:

Yes this is how I was raised. Normal, happy childhood, and my mom was totally fine with me being in the bathroom with her if she was not dressed and vice versa. My best friends family was the same way. We would go shopping together with her mom and sister and all chance together in the dressing room.

mddm

Mon, May 22 2017, 8:22 am

amother wrote:

It's a matter of what you are used. Do you mind sharing what kind of upbringing... I come from a Yeshivish home and we didn't have it and neither did my friends (that I know of). I have a neighbor (not religious) her kids (boys and girls) can literally pull her out of the shower... she doesn't always have a lock on her bathroom.
So, just wondering if it is a religious thing... any Chassidish or MO that want to chime in?

Zeleze

Mon, May 22 2017, 1:50 pm

Our house was very modest and never come upon some partly undressed ever unless by mistake.

But being 2 years in Sem overseas sleeping with all types of background girls, all that went out the window.

Dressing in front of others, and partial nudity was common, even talking and showing sizes happened at times.

Trying to bring back the old days when Tznius was a must into MY house and children.

amother

Maroon

Mon, May 22 2017, 1:59 pm

mddm wrote:

It is not a religious thing. My family is modern orthodox but my friend's family is more yeshivaish. My mother was always dressed in front of my brothers ( I mean once they were older, not babies etc) and I was dressed in front of my father and brothers. To me, it wasn't a violation of tzniut at all. Was just very normal and comfortable. If I wanted privacy, I got it.

mddm

Mon, May 22 2017, 3:03 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

That's a good question, as to what is "an exposed state" I would think even just wearing a bra and panties is exposed... surely where there is full or partial nudity. Personally, the most my kids see me is in a nightgown or robe after a shower...

MagentaYenta

Mon, May 22 2017, 3:16 pm

mddm wrote:

I was certainly careful when the boys were home but it's a bit different when females dominate your home. I remember when we turned and changed out seasonal clothes the girls and I would all get together in the master bedroom and do clothing swap and fashion show. It was no big deal.

mddm

Mon, May 22 2017, 4:17 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

So maybe just a matter of what you are used to and comfortable with.

JoyInTheMorning

Tue, May 23 2017, 5:38 am

sequoia wrote:

Why?

I would like to understand.

Also it's funny what you said that it's ok to be naked with your husband...so as soon as he's not home you have to get dressed?

Surely if you can be naked around another person (even if it's your spouse), you can be naked by yourself?

But perhaps there's a line of reasoning I'm missing.

Also good for you that you have skylights.

Tichellady wrote "There's a time and a place for nudity," and I responded "Yes, with your husband." My meaning (which I thought was clear) was, "Yes, during marital relations"; I did not mean to imply that I would be comfortable eating dinner with my husband while both (or either) of us were dressed in our birthday suits.

I thought I made it clear why I don't feel comfortable walking around without clothing even when alone, but let me requote with the context bolded:

Quote:

To me, tzniut isn't just about what men see; it's about not parading around your body to anyone. Even to yourself: I would never walk naked in my house even if I was alone, had heavy curtains on the windows and skylights, and had barricaded all the doors.

I'm private even when I use the bathroom; I make sure my skirt covers everything so that even if someone were to hypothetically walk in, they would see nothing.

To me, always keeping private parts covered (except in circumstances like relations and washing) is the essence of privacy and modesty. I understand that others feel differently.

And yes, I feel very fortunate that I have skylights, though I'd trade them in a second for a second sink in my kitchen!

breindy s

Fri, Jan 21 2022, 9:23 am

So this morning I went for a swim in a pool I had never been to! and I was stunned at the locker room behaviour, there were no cubicles and everyone was literally changing in front of each other, frum people! I couldnt beleive it and was going to ask on imamother if this is normal and I am the one with body image issues... and then I see there is a thread on this already.. lolll