How do you afford tuition?

sky

Tue, May 23 2017, 2:52 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

It happens to be, that in my kids school, people pay full tuition, and bargaining is not expected. (There are people getting breaks, but its not the norm and they don't make you bare your soul in order to get it.)

But, in answer to your question, full tuition is the "list" price.

Most schools send a contract with the price of tuition. Then most people call up the school and set up a meeting with the tuition committee. They haggle with each other and agree on a price. It is not considered charity. It is the norm. If you don't set up an meeting, and pay the price on the original contract, then you are paying full tuition.

The tuition my kid's school charges does not cover their education.
For example - lets say tuition is 6500 - they will say it really costs 8000 to educate each child - and I believe them - running a school is expensive.
I don't think its like the house example.
In most cases people will take less because they just want to sell the house or are okay making less of a profit or can't afford to keep paying taxes until it sells or need the money for a different down payment or they can choose to hold onto the house until someone else pays. Schools aren't making a profit and choosing just to make less. They have to cover their expenses. Taking less tuition just covers even less salaries, mortgage, activities, etc.

If someone isn't paying tuition someone else is covering that somewhere - either dinner donations (ma'aser) or their full tuition.

mommy3b2c

Tue, May 23 2017, 2:58 pm

sky wrote:

It's similar to my house example, because of the expectations. The schools I am referring to charge $12,000 per child. Some people pay and some people don't. They are charging enough so that the people who pay, cover those that don't pay. But the way it's done, it's not considered charity.

SixOfWands

Tue, May 23 2017, 3:00 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

That's not the way that "most" schools I am aware of do it.

If you cannot pay full price, you fill out a request for financial aid. That includes providing copies of your W-2, tax returns, and bank statements, and responding to questions, including questions about assets and vacations. You may then be offered assistance based on the information submitted.

If you have special circumstances that make you unable to pay tuition as determined above, you may file an appeal, explaining your circumstances and presenting additional information.

No one goes in and "haggles."

I have received aid (in the second step, when my husband was ill), and I am well aware that its charity. There are people out there who are donating funds and paying higher tuition to afford me a break. Its definitional, no matter what you "consider" it.

mommy3b2c

Tue, May 23 2017, 3:02 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

If you read my posts, you will see that I said most schools in MY community. I am aware that it's not done like that in many places.

And no, it is not considered charity. In MY community.

In fact, one large school gives you three choices for tuition. They tell you to pick the choice that you think you can afford best. Most middle class people pick the middle choice. And they are NOT taking charity.

amother

Gray

Tue, May 23 2017, 3:09 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Okay. This explanation of your school is at odds with "the system is created based on the fact that many will not be paying full tuition".

SixOfWands

Tue, May 23 2017, 3:11 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

But I'm telling you it's not considered tzedaka. The price they give you is considered the point where you start bargaining from.

If you buy a house, and the asking price was $500,000, but you end up paying $470,000, did they give you tzedakah?

No they didn't. They chose an asking price, well aware that the price was going to be bargained down. That's how the schools here work. They give you a price, and you start bargaining from there. I guarantee you, no one is Paying their whole salary and left with $12,000 to live on. With an income of $12,000 a year, then I guess you're homeless.

You're comparing apples with orangutans.

The seller of a house is a seller. He can demand what he wants, and take what he wants. He will earn a profit, or suffer a loss.

A school is not a seller. It has costs that it needs to cover. When a person pays less than their pro rata share, those costs must be shifted to someone else.

School costs $10 million to run. $4 million of that comes from donations. After that, to cover costs is $10,000 per student. If you don't pay that $10,000, someone else has to. That person pays $12,000 -- $2,000 of it is for your benefit. Its charity. Even if you did your best fishwife imitation to haggle down the price.

amother

Vermilion

Tue, May 23 2017, 3:11 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

[b]

Interesting I never heard of such a thing

dancingqueen

Tue, May 23 2017, 3:15 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

It's still ridiculous. Can you explain to me how someone lives on $12,000 a year?

It's obviously not possible, op states she drowning. But there's a reason mo people usually pursue high earning careers so they can afford the lifestyle and still finances can still be tight on 300+k a year.

mommy3b2c

Tue, May 23 2017, 3:17 pm

amother wrote:

Okay. This explanation of your school is at odds with "the system is created based on the fact that many will not be paying full tuition".

I said MY kids school is different.

Most schools in my community run the way I described. They overcharge per child, because they expect many will bargain. It is considered acceptable and not charity.

amother

Gray

Tue, May 23 2017, 3:20 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Ok.

Please share the name of the school with voluntary tiered tuition.

mommy3b2c

Tue, May 23 2017, 3:21 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

I know it's not the same as selling a house. I'm just explaining that when bargaining is expected, it's not considered charity. In the schools I am referring to, they overcharge with the expectation that people will bargain. It's not considered charity. You are allowed to go on vacation, and have two cars, and cleaning help, etc..... and they will still give you a break.

mommy3b2c

Tue, May 23 2017, 3:23 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

People in my community also pursue high earning careers. But $300,000 is usually enough to be comfortable because tuition is more like $12,000 per child. I wouldn't say it makes you rich though.

dancingqueen

Tue, May 23 2017, 3:31 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

People in my community also pursue high earning careers. But $300,000 is usually enough to be comfortable because tuition is more like $12,000 per child. I wouldn't say it makes you rich though.

That's not cheap obviously but that's what MO schools in familiar with start out with at prek, on the low end, by HS its up to 20-30k per kid.

Last edited by dancingqueen on Tue, May 23 2017, 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

gold21

Tue, May 23 2017, 3:42 pm

MO schools generally don't give breaks, and Lakewood schools generally don't give breaks, and chassidish schools generally don't give breaks- but to echo what Mommy3b2c said, in many litvish, non-MO, non-Lakewood, tristate area Jewish communities, it is expected that many parents will haggle on the price.

*MO schools are insanely overpriced, in my opinion.

*Lakewood and chassidish schools tend to be very well-priced and affordable, rendering price-haggling unnecessary

cnc

Tue, May 23 2017, 3:49 pm

gold21 wrote:

Chassidish schools don't give breaks because they either have insanely low tuition (One neighbor mentioned to me 120/ month.) Or they have a "name your own price". I know five people sending to the same school and they all pay different tuitions.
The very few Chassidish schools that have a higher tuition rate do give breaks.

Although getting a tuition break, haggling over the price and naming your own price are all the same thing to me.

mommy3b2c

Tue, May 23 2017, 3:49 pm

gold21 wrote:

This. And it is not considered charity!

Why is it so hard to understand that others may do things differently?