Advice needed - chinuch and general parenting

amother

Beige

Wed, May 24 2017, 10:33 pm

long background story needed:
my dd9 is allergic to some foods that are ingredients in many things. until we figured out what those things are... she suffered a lot. bh the last few years weve been avoiding her triggers. her symptoms are minimal. in the summer they're completely gone.

she was always so totally ok with avoiding foods she knows make her booboos. I knew that lately things aren't so hunkydory when a friend repeated by accident that dd traded her fidget spinner for a few goodies. when I asked what happened to the spinner she said it got lost and I left it at that.

but yesterday she had a complete meltdown. how all the kids have such delicious snacks. she never tasted these things in her life. she's dying to have these things. tears pouring down her face. she was crying hysterically. she's jealous and can't stop thinking about all the good food that others have and don't want to share with her.

now I feel like to heck with her allergies. her deprivation is worse than any physical ailments that result. what's the right thing to do? I feel like going to the store now and letting her buy whatever she wants. let her get her fill. but
a- chinuch wise is that smart?
b- shes the kind of kid who never has enough. as much attention as she gets, shes always needing more. more one-on-one, more looking at her, oohing and ahing. we try, but it's like what we put in , she'll always need double. point is, I can see how giving her free reign will not be enough.

otoh. maybe I should let her buy what she wants and let her pick out one thing per week? is that too little to combat her extreme jealousy? too rigid when what she needs now is let loose?

what suggestions do you have?

amother

Magenta

Wed, May 24 2017, 10:50 pm

In order for anyone to answer you, we need to be aware how severe this allergy is, and what reaction it causes.

jewish613

Wed, May 24 2017, 10:50 pm

What sorts of symptoms does she get? Can you let her decide if it's worth it to her to eat the foods and live with the consequences?

amother

Beige

Wed, May 24 2017, 10:59 pm

amother wrote:

In order for anyone to answer you, we need to be aware how severe this allergy is, and what reaction it causes.

not life-threatening at all. in the winter symptoms are worse. now non-existent.

newmommy22

Wed, May 24 2017, 11:56 pm

Have you been to an allergist lately. Maybe she's outgrown some of her allergies.

crust

Thu, May 25 2017, 12:04 am

Ask HER!!
I would put the ball in her court;
My dear lovely Chani.
We love you so much, and wanted to protect you from having these booboos. We think they are uncomfortable to you. But we really don't want to take away all these good treats your friends have.
What do you want? Do you mind your booboos or do you rather want the nosh?
We can stop the diet this minute. You want to think about it for half an hour?

Then, whatever she decides that's the decision. Done.

But you have to decide before this conversation if you are ready to accept he decision wholeheartedly.
If the booboos ever come back no telling her; you see? We told you these foods weren't right for you? Just regular; ouch you have booboos. Let's put cream etc.

crust

Thu, May 25 2017, 12:08 am

About the jealousy and wanting double always, wait. See how she does after stopping the diet and then reevaluate. Hatzlucha.

seeker

Thu, May 25 2017, 12:55 am

I would visit an allergist for advice. The allergist can test the current status of the allergy and advise on whether it is safe to allow her to experiment with these foods. I would not do it without a doctor's recommendation because sometimes symptoms that seem mild to you are in fact just the only VISIBLE sign of real damage that can be happening inside. Increasing exposures to allergy triggers can cause more serious problems down the line, including raising the sensitivity and putting one at risk for severe or life-threatening allergic reactions in the future. An allergist-immunologist should be able to determine whether that is a concern for your specific child, allergens, and condition.

It's interesting that you say her symptoms are minimal in general, and gone in summer. What's different in summer with regard to food allergies? Maybe there are other seasonal allergy factors and the food is not an issue anymore?

It's also unclear from your description whether this is a diagnosed allergy or a food sensitivity based on eliminating triggers. There is a big physiological difference between allergy and sensitivity.

amother

Beige

Thu, May 25 2017, 9:39 am

She has real allergies as seen in her blood work with antigen levels. Besides that weve seen physical symptoms that worsen in the winter weather whether its the dry air or the lowered immunity in general.

my bigger question is about the chinuch angle. I never have all these snacks in my house. now she wants them. do I give them to her? only to her? how do I balance her needs versus the chinuch part of giving in to extreme jealousy? allergies only explains why in the past I was so on top of davka her food consumption. I explained to her, she saw the booboos resulting from cheating. she always made her own choices. she seemed to be completely ok with occasional cheats and overall self-control. and now it's like all the deprivation suddenly got to her.

iow, even if I get the go-ahead from the allergist, how do I figure out what the right thing to do is?

seeker

Thu, May 25 2017, 9:45 am

I don't understand the question. If you get the go-ahead from the allergist, then the right thing to do is let her go ahead.

If she was last tested a few years ago, there's a chance that she may have outgrown some allergies. Kids often outgrow egg allergy, for example, and sometimes dairy as well, among others.

yOungM0mmy

Thu, May 25 2017, 9:57 am

So I'm confused about your description of he allergies, my son has anaphylactic allergies to some foods, others 'only' cause him to throw up or have his lips, tongue etc swell. Obviously I'm not willing to risk these reactions, but neither is he, so he is never even tempted to eat these things. But, I do make sure to bend over backwards to make the things he can have, or versions he can have. If he has a friend's birthday party, I speak to the mother before and find out exactly which treats she is serving so he knows which he can have, and I make him his own cupcakes which I decorate, and make one for the birthday boy as well - all his friends know, and look forward to seeing what I've created, and getting their own. Shavuot is coming up and that's a hard one for him - he's allergic to eggs, dairy and nuts - so I've always made his a parev cream concoction, and taken time out of a busy erev yom tov to help him make his own version of the cheesecakes the class made in school. Last year he told me he wants a proper cheesecake, in a pie crust, like everyone else has, so after I'd already made 10 different cheesecakes plus his special individual ones (we have a lot of people over yom tov), I still went and got the ingredients and found a recipe to make him what he wanted...of course your daughter wants to be like everyone else, and it's your job as a mother to make her as well adjusted socially and emotionally, as well as healthy physically.

On the other hand, my cousin is lactose intolerant, and gets spots when he eats dairy, so he decides when the pizza is worth it, or not, so if it's only that kind of reaction, thats her choice. She may go overboard for a while, but will eventually make more logical, balanced decisions.

amother

Beige

Thu, May 25 2017, 10:37 am

yOungM0mmy wrote:

I used to do what you do but it didnt help with the deprived feeling. she still wanted what they have. so instead we went with mostly staying on restricted diet and allowing cheats because the reaction is not so severe.

amother

Rose

Thu, May 25 2017, 10:51 am

I would buy special treats that I don't normally get, but not ones that include her allergens. To me, that is teaching her that she can ignore what her body needs. Besides which I believe that minor reactions can have long lasting effects that are cumulative.

amother

Natural

Thu, May 25 2017, 4:32 pm

So I was that kid who was allergic to everything. . .

This was a very sore spot for me as a kid, and I had a hard time with it. In particular, just around 4th grade (age 9 or so), I went through a similar phase. And I call it a phase on purpose.

Here are some things I think you should know from a chinuch perspective:
1) Your dd may have allergies for life. That means, she is going to have to learn one way or another that she won't be able to eat what other people eat and this is the reality. And she has to learn that she doesn't deserves special treatment or special treats just because she has allergies. And she has to learn that she can't mistreat her body just because it feels good - this is her only body in life and it is not separate from the rest of it, and she needs to take care of herself - her emotions don't trump her body just because they are hard to deal with. The hard truth is that this is her life, and she has to learn to make the best of it, or she will spend the rest of her life feeling sorry for herself and/or having poor health. My mother always made sure I had something when the other kids did, but nothing more - and let me tell you, carob cake is not as good as chocolate cake, and slices of fruit are not actually a good alternative to pretzels. But I learned that there is value in not feeling bad for myself just because I don't have what the other kids have, and the value of taking good care of my health. It's a really, really tough lesson, but she will need it as she gets older, especially if she has to deal with this forever.

2) She can't spend the rest of her life feeling jealous of what everyone else has - this isn't about allergies, it's the same as having the cool toys that the other kids have, or the cool clothes, or the cool backpack. Someone else will always have something better than you do, their clothes will be cooler, their toys will be more fun, their grass will always be greener. Jealousy takes many forms in children, and as unfortunate as it is to have allergies which make you jealous of other people's snacks, it's just another thing on the list of things your daughter will be jealous of. And she will get past the worst of it. I'm not going to lie, I went out with my friends recently to some dessert place and I had a tiny pang of 'I wish I could eat that too', but it passed in 5 seconds flat, without any effort needed. But, it's also important to let her know that feeling a little jelous is ok - and that means that you feel a bit bad for yourself briefly, but it doesn't interfere with your life. You want her to know it's ok to be jelous, but learn to deal with it - imagine if I were so jealous that I wouldn't even go with my friends when they got dessert? The bottom line is to let her feel her jealousy but make sure she can move on from it.

Now some practical advice - make sure she has her own treats that she can eat. They will never be as good as the ones the other kids have (though I'm not going to lie, I really, really like carob cake), but she is not deprived. Tell yourself that over and over, and tell her too (nicely and empathetically of course0. If she didn't have the cool clothes that the neighbor had, would you run out and buy them? Would you think she was deprived if she had a perfectly reasonable wardrobe even if it weren't as cool as some of the other neighbors' clothes? So don't feel like you need to give her what she wants just because she has a 'special restriction'. Lots of people in life have restrictions, and it doesn't make their lives less full or less good - they just have to learn that there is still good in what they have, even if it's not what others have. And since she may have to deal with this long-term, the earlier tshe can deal with it the better.

And now my last piece of advice - if your allergist says it's ok - let her cheat a little bit once in a while. I actually did this anyway at age 9 (I would have a tiny piece of my friend's chocolate snack around once a week). But one day I overdid it (e.g., had 3 little pieced of chocolate) and came home covered in hives. So I fessed up, and my mother realized that giving me permission to do it was better than me walking around like I was carrying a big shameful secret, and doing a bad job of it. So we sat down together and set guidelines we were both ok with for how often and how much I could cheat (e.g. two times a month, and less than a fingertip's worth of one of the following 3 foods (a,b,c)). This worked well, and there were times when I went overboard, but quickly learned where my limits were in terms of having an allergic reaction. Keep in mind, these tiny pieces of chocolate or other snacks were never enough, and I don't think they made my jealousy any better. But I felt that I had some control over it, and the natural consequences of getting sick when I ate too much allowed me to naturally get over my desire to eat these things most of the time.

I know I sound very tough love for the most part, but that's how my mother was with me, and though I didn't fully appreciate it at the time, I have a really normal attitude towards my allergies as an adult, and I think it was absolutely the best decision that she didn't spoil me or let me wallow in self-pity just because I have allergies.

amother

Beige

Thu, May 25 2017, 7:37 pm

amother wrote:

So I was that kid who was allergic to everything. . .

2) She can't spend the rest of her life feeling jealous of what everyone else has - this isn't about allergies, it's the same as having the cool toys that the other kids have, or the cool clothes, or the cool backpack. Someone else will always have something better than you do, their clothes will be cooler, their toys will be more fun, their grass will always be greener. Jealousy takes many forms in children, and as unfortunate as it is to have allergies which make you jealous of other people's snacks, it's just another thing on the list of things your daughter will be jealous of. And she will get past the worst of it. I'm not going to lie, I went out with my friends recently to some dessert place and I had a tiny pang of 'I wish I could eat that too', but it passed in 5 seconds flat, without any effort needed. But, it's also important to let her know that feeling a little jelous is ok - and that means that you feel a bit bad for yourself briefly, but it doesn't interfere with your life. You want her to know it's ok to be jelous, but learn to deal with it - imagine if I were so jealous that I wouldn't even go with my friends when they got dessert? The bottom line is to let her feel her jealousy but make sure she can move on from it.
.

this is the part that worries me if I give in and let her let loose. I believe that chinuch-wise it would be a bad response to her jealousy. and that she'll anyway never have her fill. there's always something more, better, greater, sweeter that I wont be able to give her.
going out and buying her everything because she cried so hard feels wrong.

petiteruchy

Thu, May 25 2017, 8:19 pm

Also remember that this is partly the age.

It's normal for them to be up and down over minor disappointments. Before making any major changes to her diet or rules regarding allergies, I'd give her a little space, make sure she's getting enough sleep, fresh air and relaxation for a couple days, and wait and see if the problem pops up again.

I find that with my dd who's close in age to yours, she will often get very wound up about how awful or serious some situation is... she'll go on and on, tears and hysterics and I'll start to think I need to take some drastic action. Then I remember to give a nice filling snack and send her to bed early, make sure she has a quiet couple of days with lots of playing outside and early bedtimes, and before I know it, it'll have been days since she last mentioned her crisis and if you mention it again, she barely even remembers!

amother

Beige

Thu, May 25 2017, 8:21 pm

petiteruchy wrote:

good point to keep in mind! we have other things going on at the same time so this helps.

amother

Natural

Fri, May 26 2017, 3:45 am

amother wrote:

Exactly - don't spoil her just because she has allergies. I know it's hard to watch her suffer through it, but she will suffer much more later in life if you spoil her because of it. Each kid has their own challenges, and this is one of hers. Help her navigate it, and she will be better off for it.

I do recommend sitting down with her and making a plan of tiny cheats she can do (as at the end of my previous post). Obviously, check with her dr first. There is a big difference between giving her everything she wants, and helping her learn to control and manage her food desires through a small amount of cheating.

FranticFrummie

Fri, May 26 2017, 4:11 am

Amother "natural", your post was incredibly insightful! I wish you'd posted under your SN (although the color you got assigned made me LOL!)

IMHO, this is just another level of keeping kosher. The world is full of temptation, and if we don't have kosher ways to get out needs met, we are going to want to cheat.

The lessons in respecting your body and showing restraint now, will pay huge dividends later in life, when worse temptation comes along.

Bacon cheese burgers are yummy. So is that cute guy at the office. So is watching movies on Shabbos when you're bored and the kids are napping. Our yetzer hara has traps set for us every step of the way.

The more a child is strengthened early on, the stronger an adult they will be - when you only WISH the biggest problem was eating nosh.

I feel for you. I remember when DD was in first grade. She was lactose intolerant, and her school had a pizza and ice cream party for everyone. She came home and burst into tears, sobbing to break your heart. I took her out for sushi, and bought her her own carton of parve ice cream. It wasn't the same thing as joining the other kids for the fun, but it was a teaching moment for her. (She outgrew her allergies around age 9.)