Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Interesting Discussions
Baali vs. Ishi
Previous  1  2  3



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

iluvy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 30 2017, 12:16 pm
Ruchel wrote:
Did people say ishi for husband - not as the word ish - 100 years ago?
In French you could say "mon homme" (my man) too. But it certainly doesn't sound refined, or married.


Leah Imeinu called Yaakov "ishi".

Apricot amother, what does respecting your husband have to do with calling him your owner? What does he call you to show that he respects you?
Back to top

Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 30 2017, 12:38 pm
So clearly ishi used to be normal then. I'm curious as to it stopped being used.
Back to top

bsy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 30 2017, 12:40 pm
amother wrote:
my question is why do some betchers not have an option for a wife to say at all, only for a husband like women don't betch?


My thoughts exactly. I'm still not quite sure I'm bentching correctly, because in school we said ...אבי...אמי... ואת כל המסובין כאן
Back to top

ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 31 2017, 5:21 pm
amother wrote:
Except that Ishi is actually at least as old a term as Baali. See Breishit Perek gimel, Chava's punishment.

For me the question isn't whether it was ever an acceptable term. It's what the term means today. "Ba'ali" means husband. "Ben zugi" means "guy I'm serious about, but probably not married to." "Ishi" means "private" or "personal." Like, try to introduce someone as "This is my husband" with that term and Israelis will be scratching their heads thinking, "Why does she keep gesturing to this man and saying 'it's personal'?"

I'd rather use a word that has bad connotations in theory but has a perfectly fine day-to-day meaning, than something that's theoretically fine but doesn't convey the meaning I'm looking for in day-to-day conversation.

But like I said, if other people want to pave the way by trying to make "ishi" the commonly used term, they're welcome to try and I wish them luck.
Back to top

etky




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 31 2017, 6:01 pm
ora_43 wrote:
If I could pick a word, I'd prefer "ishi" or whatever the masculine form of "ra'aya" is.

But I also have no real issue with "baali." Words move past their literal meanings. People say "husband" without meaning "head of household." People can be offended by "my woman" and still be fine with "wife," which originally meant "woman."

Hebrew is a bit different, because the word "ba'al" is currently used to connote ownership in other contexts; that's not an ancient, forgotten meaning. But Hebrew speakers don't hear "ba'ali" as "owner," they hear it as "husband."

I prefer ishi on the theoretical level but use ba'ali because it sounds more normal in day to day conversation. Like how I call my telephone a telephone, and not a sah-rachok or whatever it was supposed to be in Hebrew.

That's just me. I have nothing against the use of "ishi." If enough people use it, I would probably switch too.


It's interesting though that the stand alone word for owner in modern Hebrew is בעלים and not בעל. Ba'al, as a stand alone word is only used nowadays to connote 'husband'. Ba'al only connotes ownership of something when used in the construct state (סמיכות) like בעל הדירה, בעל הבית בעל החוב etc.
Back to top
Page 3 of 3 Previous  1  2  3 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions