ADHD and argumentative

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Our Challenging Children (gifted, ADHD, sensitive, defiant)

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amother

Maroon

Tue, May 30 2017, 4:27 pm

What is it that makes them so argumentative? I'm so done with it. Why? I really sincerely want to know.

Are most ADHD kids argumentative? Or my ds this way and nothing to do? What can I do for him to see what he's doing?

Any ideas? I would love to read him a story of a child that is argumentative and for him to see what it looks like. So he will have insight. I don't know if it's gonna stop him. I don't what will. When he's on meds he much calmer and level headed. Yet off it he's impossible. I can't get any reasoning. Ok I'm expecting too much and that's when I lose it. When I calm down it's much easier. But his arguments with friends and with me is so sad. Yes he's in therapy. I want to tell his therapist. I think I'm gonna bring it up to her.

amother

Aqua

Tue, May 30 2017, 4:29 pm

amother wrote:

To answer your question, yes defiance is definitely a party of ADHD. It was one of the main things my Dr. took into consideration when giving a dx.

amother

Maroon

Tue, May 30 2017, 6:10 pm

I was told that defiance actually has a lehachis to it. That it's intentional rebellion. Meaning they are dafka not gonna listen.

But ds is not doing it on purpose. I know it. He doesn't look to hurt. It's just a part of his nature. When he argues he doesn't do it intentional. Meaning many times he argues and there is no place for argument. It's just like who he is.

For example at times when a child feels hurt they intentionally hurt back. Here it's not that way. It's just argue for the sake of arguing.

It's hard to explain. (My mother has it too) she argues even when you agree with her. It's impulsive. I don't understand it. It's just something she does subconsciously. She needs to win every argument. Even if the other person feels hurt she is not aware. Very self absorbed.

mha3484

Tue, May 30 2017, 6:18 pm

I think it's a function of being impulsive. The part of the brain that tells you to stop is underdeveloped. My son and I talk about filters often. Just because you think something does not mean you have to say it out loud.

amother

Maroon

Tue, May 30 2017, 7:26 pm

I've told my ds this too. He doesn't have to say everything he's thinking. I don't have any other way to teach him.........

I told him if he argues with his friend I won't let him come to us. Now I don't it helps. Sometimes ds is off meds when the friend comes and the arguments are worse then.

So mha how do you explain it to your ds? My ds is 8. Please I want to know. Maybe I will learn something that hopefully will help.

I don't think I was fair to say the consequence for arguing is losing a friend.

Wrong on my part. I just want to make him think before and I know it's hard. So I know this is wrong what would you do?

mha3484

Tue, May 30 2017, 7:47 pm

I once did a whole visualization. We talked about the air conditioner has a filter, the dryer has a filter, the vacuum has a filter so his brain also has a filter. We practiced having a thought and watching it go into the filter and stay there and not come out of his mouth.

amother

Ginger

Wed, May 31 2017, 2:34 pm

and I finally learned how to go with it
you have to guide them to make decisions as much as possible and not join the arguments

amother

Lavender

Wed, May 31 2017, 4:47 pm

Impulisvity is a large part of ADHD. And this argumentativeness coems from that.

In terms of helping with it, role playing is a great help here - act out situations or arguments. There are 2 ways to do this and you should do both - 1 way is to have you and your ds act things like this out together, and the other is for you and dh (or another child) act it out as play in front of ds.

I also recommend that you bring it up with his therapist.

Lastly, if the medication helps this, but when he's off medication it's worse, it sounds like there are times when he's not on medication. So if this is the case, why isn't he on medication all the time?

amother

Blush

Fri, Jun 02 2017, 12:26 am

OP - my son is exactly like yours. Since my dh is very opposed to meds, I haven't had him diagnosed but it does seem that he has adhd or maybe anxiety. I know what you are going through ... I guess keeping him on meds is not the solution if your ds is not taking it all the time? I have not found therapy to do much for my ds. Have you found that it is helping? The defiance, anger and impulsiveness gets much worse ... my ds is 11. I am hoping that when he matures he will be able to behave like a rational, enjoyable human being. Now it can sometimes be a nightmare. Please explain why you do not keep your ds on meds all the time.

seeker

Fri, Jun 02 2017, 10:36 am

I think the argumentativeness comes from a combination of factors common in ADHD (and, incidentally, Asperger's/ASD as well)
1. Inability to see another point of view - they cannot understand that there could be a different side to things than the one they see/think/know, so they stick with their position and try to get you to understand it as well because it seems crazy to them that you're thinking something else, and they have to set you straight.
2. Difficulty delaying gratification - in a relationship, you need to be able to sacrifice winning arguments for the sake of getting along in the long run. Kids with ADHD have a VERY hard time doing this. They make mistakes in a lot of areas of life because they see things very immediately without being able to fully process the long-term effects. This accounts for some of the impulsivity (some of it is just acting without thinking, but some of it is also that once they think they still are thinking in the short term.

Both of these are things that can be improved with a lot of work plus time to mature (time alone won't usually do it, but work alone stays pretty theoretical until it has some experience to make it sink in.) It's something that can be supported by therapists, teachers, and parents together. He needs to learn about different points of view - that they are both possible and sometimes valid, that even if they don't seem valid to you they can be important to the other person, that it is possible that you don't know everything - surprise-ending mysteries and lateral-thinking brain teasers are a good way to drive in this point! He also needs to learn that it is better to be friends than to be right. He needs to learn that arguing bothers other people and that even if he is right in the moment, he can choose to give in to his friend for the sake of staying friends.

amother

Maroon

Fri, Jun 02 2017, 11:01 am

To answer some questions.

Ds is on meds everyday. It doesn't last more then 4-6 hrs. It takes away his appetite. Doctor said this is the one with least side affects. So by 4 pm he's off it.

Other make you insomnia. Which would aggravate his ADHD. That's why I say "when he's on meds".

If there is any meds that can help him without the side affects I would give him. I can't have his appetite suppressed more hours. He will lose even more weight.

There is no perfect answer

I will definitely try the filter idea.

amother

Maroon

Fri, Jun 02 2017, 11:05 am

Lateral thinking brain teasers. What is that?????

seeker

Fri, Jun 02 2017, 11:08 am

I don't know if that's the official name but that's what the brain teaser books always said... you know, those riddles where the answer is something you wouldn't have thought of... if I find a good example I'll try to share, running between errands now

mha3484

Fri, Jun 02 2017, 11:10 am

My son is having a lot of success on a medication called tenex. It targets the impulsive behavior with next to no side effects. It might be worth asking your sons dr if it would help him. We really were hesitant to medicate because we only knew of stimulants and we felt like our son was too young for something that strong. This was suggested instead and it has been great.

amother

Maroon

Fri, Jun 02 2017, 1:57 pm

My ds. Is on adderall and intuniv. what's the difference between it and tenex.

amother

Maroon

Fri, Jun 02 2017, 2:00 pm

Tenex and intuniv are the same. So we're on the same.

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