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Does staring = harassing?
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petiteruchy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 21 2017, 9:53 am
I'm also really not sure why his humiliation matters more than her comfort. I think she SHOULD say something if she feels comfortable, because I do think she should have practice with and the ability to make herself feel safe and comfortable, but if she doesn't want to/can't, then it would still be the parent's place to make that happen.

It depends a lot on how your community is. Does she regularly have contact with boys her own age and older? Does she regularly talk to them, have conversations of varying lengths? Did she ever play with this boy when they were younger? If yes to any of those, then yes, she will probably feel ok saying something. If no, then why on earth WOULD she feel comfortable talking to him about this?
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amother
Apricot


 

Post Wed, Jun 21 2017, 10:05 am
No she never played with him as we moved in after the age where they would have played. Actually, when we first moved in he pestered her a bit. In our community it wouldn't be normal for her to be social with him, but it would be normal to say something practical like, is your sister home. She will not enjoy saying something, but she can and I will encourage her to.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 21 2017, 10:19 am
She should NOT smile at him! Boys get mixed messages, and tend to think that a smile means "yes", even if her words are saying "no". How do you think date rape starts? Women are taught to please others, and to be sweet. Then when the time comes, the "NO" doesn't get taken seriously. (BTDT, when I was 16)

Teach her to put on what my DD calls her "b*tch face", and be serious. Stare back until he looks away. If he doesn't, then she should calmly tell him to stop it, because it makes her feel uncomfortable.

If he does it again, she should tell him that next time she's going straight to his parents, because he obviously cannot control himself.

Mad This stuff makes me SO MAD! Mad
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Wed, Jun 21 2017, 10:25 am
How does she feel? Sick to the stomach? Aroused? Secretly flattered? It would make a big difference if this is a flirting and she secretly enjoys, but would never admit. Or if he is creep and he makes her dirty and ashamed.
If it is the first you have whole new world and strategy to figure out.

BUT if he is a creep and makes her not feel safe, by all means protect her or give her the tools and techniques how to defend herself. Also if he is offensively and obviously gazing at her and enjoys her insecurity, PLEASE dont feel sorry him. He is not the victim here and also not a vulnarable boy...
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 21 2017, 10:47 am
If he's really staring and she's ill at ease and doesn't dare to say anything, yes you (or better your husband) can go and say something. He doesn't have to be nasty. He can start with hints. But my father has done it occasionally and he's NOT charedi or anything. Just old fashioned protective.
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 21 2017, 11:53 am
He probably has a crush on her. Please don't have an adult say something to him. If your daughter wants to say something or stare right back with a mean face, she can do that.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Wed, Jun 21 2017, 7:28 pm
I agree that she should definitely NOT smile at him.

This advice is right on the mark. If she smiles, he will construe that to mean that she is likewise interested in him.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 21 2017, 8:54 pm
petiteruchy wrote:
I have no patience for people acting like men's behavior is innocent and harmless. Men complimenting women, staring at women, trying to strike up conversations... It all is behavior that would never be tried on other men, and it carries with it, for women, the threat that if they aren't polite and accepting of it, the threat of violence. This boy's behavior may not be in this realm yet, and may never enter this realm, but a 16 yo isn't innocent. He has control over his eyes. And if your daughter feels it's invasive, well, probably there's a reason for that.

I'm not usually the advocate around here for feminist perspectives, but this is too retrograde even for me. Women don't need to act like victims-in-waiting for the evil predations of men.

The majority of men don't compliment, stare at, or strike up conversations with other men because they are neither attracted to them nor pursuing their attention in a romantic or s-xual way. Of course, perch yourself on a barstool in a gay club, and you'll see nothing but men complimenting, staring at, and trying to strike up conversations with other men.

Complimenting, staring at, or striking up conversations are part of courtship rituals. They are not, in and of themselves, acts of aggression or power plays. The fact that a lot of men -- especially 16-year-old boys -- are bad at the elements of these rituals doesn't make them (the rituals or the men) inherently sinister.

Of course, the world is full of men who utilize these rituals inappropriately, inadvertantly, as a way of compensating for their own insecurities, or simply in the wrong settings. Unless combined with an unsafe situation, it doesn't really matter whether the guy is a creep or the girl is simply not interested.

Fourteen-year-olds of both genders need to know how to deflect unwanted or inappropriate advances without getting into an analysis of the person's motives or psychological state. The way to avoid feeling threatened is to make sure that you're not actually threatened.

We're Walking, We're Walking
Pick-up lines are hard to deliver to a moving target. Coach kids on how to respond to a compliment with a cold "thank you" and no eye contact without breaking stride.

RBF
FF mentioned this: the cold, uninterested face that says, "Leave me alone" to someone staring. Or, if the starer doesn't desist, a slightly sarcastic, "Is there something I can help you with?" and immediate relocation.

Too Busy for You
This is the catch-all response for creepy pick-up lines and ill-advised chit-chatters alike: "I'm afraid I can't really chat with you right now" combined with consulting a phone, book, or other prop.

These are just a few of the techniques to deflect unwanted advances. All of these have to be done with a somewhat haughty attitude that may not come naturally to a 14-year-old but can be practiced. And, naturally, instruction on how to extricate oneself from a situation that truly seems unsafe for some reason.

Based on the OP's description, it doesn't sound like this boy is doing anything horrible. In fact, it sounds like the father noticed it more than the girl herself. But it's a great opportunity to prepare your DD for situations that may be less benign. Even in less-insular parts of the observant Jewish community, we tend to forget that high-school aged kids are assumed to be "available" in much of the world.
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 21 2017, 9:02 pm
Actually, I think it's very rude to stare, whether you are a 16-year-old looking at a pretty girl or a 60-year-old rebbitzen shnuffling at your neighbor's outfit that's below your standards.

This isn't a one-time innocent space-out. It's time for mini-social-skills lesson. I'm all for DD saying, "please stop staring, that's pretty rude." Followed by a a complete disconnect from the topic. Someone's gotta let that teen know that his staring actually affects other people (whether a pretty girl, person with special needs, or victim of an accident, etc.) and is a little socially off.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 21 2017, 9:12 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
She should NOT smile at him! Boys get mixed messages, and tend to think that a smile means "yes", even if her words are saying "no". How do you think date rape starts? Women are taught to please others, and to be sweet. Then when the time comes, the "NO" doesn't get taken seriously. (BTDT, when I was 16)


I am sorry for your pain, but the victims don't share any responsibility for their rape. Smiling at a boy does not lead to date rape.
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Wed, Jun 21 2017, 10:20 pm
Squishy wrote:
I am sorry for your pain, but the victims don't share any responsibility for their rape. Smiling at a boy does not lead to date rape.


No but it can encourage said boy to continue in his attention to the girl.

I guess I'm more old school than other posters I think a father should tell off a boy who is bothering his dd especially in circles where she wouldn't be comfortable saying something herself.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 21 2017, 11:28 pm
amother wrote:
No but it can encourage said boy to continue in his attention to the girl.

I guess I'm more old school than other posters I think a father should tell off a boy who is bothering his dd especially in circles where she wouldn't be comfortable saying something herself.


All rape victims then did something to encourage their rapist. Obviously, they caught his attention somehow. Date rape victims are especially to blame because they were on a date with their rapist.
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Wed, Jun 21 2017, 11:45 pm
Squishy wrote:
All rape victims then did something to encourage their rapist. Obviously, they caught his attention somehow. Date rape victims are especially to blame because they were on a date with their rapist.


Oy. I'm not talking about rape, rather about regular situations of unwanted attention.
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petiteruchy




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 22 2017, 8:17 am
Squishy wrote:
All rape victims then did something to encourage their rapist. Obviously, they caught his attention somehow. Date rape victims are especially to blame because they were on a date with their rapist.


I get now that this was sarcasm, but geez. a little less deadpan, a little more obvious... I nearly had a heart attack.


Last edited by petiteruchy on Thu, Jun 22 2017, 8:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Thu, Jun 22 2017, 8:24 am
Squishy wrote:
All rape victims then did something to encourage their rapist. Obviously, they caught his attention somehow. Date rape victims are especially to blame because they were on a date with their rapist.


I hope this is sarcasm.
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amother
Black


 

Post Thu, Jun 22 2017, 8:24 am
petiteruchy wrote:
WHAT?


I'm sorry... WHAT? I'm speechless.


I don't necessarily agree with the point she's trying to make, but clearly she's being sarcastic.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Thu, Jun 22 2017, 8:27 am
I happen to believe that even if technically consential, if either party pretended to be someone they weren't or lied about their situation (not in a relationship when they rly are etc) and that would have been a deal breaker, although it probably isn't legally rape, it's still a violation and in my head is rape.
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petiteruchy




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 22 2017, 8:28 am
amother wrote:
I don't necessarily agree with the point she's trying to make, but clearly she's being sarcastic.


I missed the post above. it's clearer now.
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Thu, Jun 22 2017, 8:56 am
Fox wrote:


Complimenting, staring at, or striking up conversations are part of courtship rituals. They are not, in and of themselves, acts of aggression or power plays. The fact that a lot of men -- especially 16-year-old boys -- are bad at the elements of these rituals doesn't make them (the rituals or the men) inherently sinister.

Of course, the world is full of men who utilize these rituals inappropriately, inadvertantly, as a way of compensating for their own insecurities, or simply in the wrong settings. Unless combined with an unsafe situation, it doesn't really matter whether the guy is a creep or the girl is simply not interested.

Fourteen-year-olds of both genders need to know how to deflect unwanted or inappropriate advances without getting into an analysis of the person's motives or psychological state. The way to avoid feeling threatened is to make sure that you're not actually threatened.



I agree with most of the above.
However,
In what case do u recommend the below exactly?!
Fox wrote:

We're Walking, We're Walking
Pick-up lines are hard to deliver to a moving target. Coach kids on how to respond to a compliment with a cold "thank you" and no eye contact without breaking stride.

RBF
FF mentioned this: the cold, uninterested face that says, "Leave me alone" to someone staring. Or, if the starer doesn't desist, a slightly sarcastic, "Is there something I can help you with?" and immediate relocation.

Too Busy for You
This is the catch-all response for creepy pick-up lines and ill-advised chit-chatters alike: "I'm afraid I can't really chat with you right now" combined with consulting a phone, book, or other prop.

These are just a few of the techniques to deflect unwanted advances. All of these have to be done with a somewhat haughty attitude that may not come naturally to a 14-year-old but can be practiced. And, naturally, instruction on how to extricate oneself from a situation that truly seems unsafe for some reason.

Based on the OP's description, it doesn't sound like this boy is doing anything horrible. In fact, it sounds like the father noticed it more than the girl herself. But it's a great opportunity to prepare your DD for situations that may be less benign. Even in less-insular parts of the observant Jewish community, we tend to forget that high-school aged kids are assumed to be "available" in much of the world.
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Zeleze




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 22 2017, 12:06 pm
He is only 17 and hormones would be at his peak at this age.

BUT if you don't stop him (in a nice discreet manner) he will get worse and someday might get caught being a peeping tom or even worse.

He just needs a little explanation and understanding with a warm heart to understand what his doing.
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