s/o so what is the meaning of life

youngishbear

Tue, Jul 11 2017, 8:32 pm

behappy2 wrote:

I think that God intended for us to sort of grow our soul and part of that process I think is being able to be present and enjoy his gifts and connect with ourselves which is really connecting with our Neshama which is a part of Hashem. I think that this journey can only happen through pain and being on this earth. I do not have a source for this and yes I think a lot.

This feels true.

iyar

Tue, Jul 11 2017, 8:49 pm

youngishbear wrote:

I was addressing the idea that the purpose of life is to enjoy it. I find that difficult to accept because life is not full of pleasure.

The purpose of life is to enable us to enjoy real closeness to Hashem in Olam Haba, which is real eternal life. To say that the purpose of life is to enjoy the physical pleasures of this world is to mimic the Greek philosopher Epicurus. If you think his name sounds very similar to a person who has no cheilek in Olam Haba, then there's a good reason for that. This world is just the short-lived temporary "prozdor" or entrance hall that leads us to the ultimate pleasure of Olam Haba.
Having said that, we know that Hashem provides many opportunities for us to experience physical pleasure during our short stay on this earth. Within the parameters of serving Him (which we do by living our lives according to the Torah), it's our duty to experience, enjoy and be grateful for this pleasure. Similarly it's our duty to experience various types of suffering on this earth, each of us according to our specific needs. As impossible as it sounds and actually is, we even have to be grateful for the suffering.
The words of Mesillas Yesharim (quoted in Hebrew by maroon amother) teach us that Hashem is the perfection of Chessed and He gives us the gift of earning our Olam Haba so that we will truly enjoy it (as opposed to just getting it without any personal input, which wouldn't bring us the same level of satisfaction).
This is a simplistic comment that doesn't reach the real depths of Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzato's full meaning. And that's because I don't pretend to have even a miniscule degree of his brilliant understanding of the Torah. I also of course admit the challenge of serving Hashem through the pleasure and pain He provides in this world. This leads us to the topic of nisyonos, but all of this is really beyond the scope of an imamother discussion. And way beyond the grasp of this particular imamother.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jul 12 2017, 8:27 am

iyar wrote:

And when we experience pleasure, we should elevate it. Enjoy the food as fuel to have the koach to serve Hashem and live a meaningful life.
As far as intimacy, I heard a noted kallah teacher talk and she quoted quite a number of big name gedolim she'd been in touch with that this time is for pure pleasure in each other as this is so important for marriage. This was the message they wanted women to know. Yet IMO it's not a setira to think, wow, I'm so lucky to be able to do this b'kedusha u'vetahara within this wonderful relationship.

iyar

Wed, Jul 12 2017, 8:54 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Agree PinkFridge.. We don't believe in living like priests. That's a different religion...

I didn't get into the idea of elevating the physical pleasures of this world to bring out the spirituality in them because I was trying to keep my post a reasonable length.

I know. I didn't Wink

amother

Powderblue

Wed, Jul 12 2017, 9:22 am

About being grateful for suffering. (this is op btw)

So sometimes, when I'm thinking a lot, I have bizarre thoughts about this. I don't share them publicly because they are so strange.

But maybe I will here, and you can tell me why I am wrong.

I'm making this up to explain my thought process.

Let's say I once knew a man who was not really into davening. So he was lax with the mitzvah of tefilin. So then his hand gets hurt, and he can't put tefilin on, but he is patur for those days. Afterwards his hand gets better but he still doesn't put on tefiln. So then the injury gets infected and he loses the hand.

Let's say I heard that made up story. And in my head, my response is-

HKBH is so very kind. Instead of this man being punished in Olam haba for not wearing tefilin every day, He cut off his hand, now he totally has an excuse. And I am silently, privately on almost ecstatic awe of the kindness of HKBH. I know I can't ever share this thought wth a living soul . The poor guy has suffered an absolute tragedy and lost his hand, for goodness sake.

When I think like this I wonder if I have a serious mental illness or personality disorder.

What do you think?

chicco

Wed, Jul 12 2017, 9:30 am

I don't think there is anything wrong with you. And I think it's awesome that you are looking for meaning every where. I do think it's a little dangerous to be making cheshbonos about other people's lives. I hear what you are saying here, but the reality is, that man's davening and that man's losing his arm are all for him to deal with and find meaning from. There are so many parts of him that you know nothing about. I think it's more important to focus on your own life and look for Hashem there. Our own personal lives are Hashem communicating with us. It's important to try and understand, and if we are taking leaps, they should be positive ones, but I think (thought it's difficult) to only apply this to our own lives. It's cool that you operate on this dimension though. Kol hakavod.

amother

Powderblue

Wed, Jul 12 2017, 9:36 am

I agree with you about focusing on one's own life. I guess the thing about the arm (which I made up) happened because before I started thinking this way, if I heard a story like that I could literally have spent a few days being depressed to the point of almost paralysis about it. This is one of my techniques, the other is that before I uses to be a total news junkie, now I virtually never listen to the news.

iyar

Wed, Jul 12 2017, 9:56 am

amother wrote:

In our own lives we have to know that every chromosome in our DNA and everything that happens to us is from Hashem. Sometimes we might feel we know why things turned out the way they did. Something might just happen to work out amazingly well for us. We feel like He gave us a special present and we feel grateful. Saying Modim with extra kavana can't hurt. Sometimes we do something wrong and we see what looks like a punishment. It can't hurt to do teshuva, and that might be exactly what we're meant to do. But I wouldn't take any drastic action without discussing this with someone smarter than me.
I stay away from figuring out other people's reward and punishment. My own life is complicated enough.

I never liked those stories where we figure out exactly what Hashem was thinking and why He made something happen. We can't figure and we don't know. The hidden mysterious things are part of the beauty life as much as all the beautiful sunsets we see with our eyes.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jul 12 2017, 12:58 pm

marina wrote:

It's different to say that we are permitted to take pleasure in this world and we should elevate it to serve God vs saying the entire point of creation is to enjoy what God has given.

I learn with someone from a very assimilate, unaffiliated background. One of the things she loves, that comes up often, is how we view the physical. It's not something to eschew but something to fully integrate into a spiritual life. On some level I can see the two reconciled. Of course you could say, what about ascetic people who live on a low material level. But they're living on some material level, and face the charge of elevating it. And elevating involves fully interfacing with it.

So yeah, I see the difference, but it's not just "permitted", like some kind of concession to our baser nature.