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I just can't it. this was the last straw
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sneakermom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 2:26 pm
I think there is a competitive vibe she gives off. Almost like she is thriving by outdoing you. And you're falling into her trap.

She's clipping your wings, while spreading out her own, from one side of the office to the other.

Usually people like her are narcissistic. They need constant attention. Crave control and seek to dominate.

It's very discreet. But your feelings explain what is happening. You feel you're nothing and she's everything.
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amother
Jetblack


 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 2:48 pm
Here's my take on it.
First of all, here's a hug. No one wants to live with such pain! It's horrible to feel horrible about yourself!

The way I see it, everyone has values/priorities. If you wanted to spend a lot of money and time on your appearance, you could. You could spend it on Botox, on a tummy tuck, on a professional spray tan, on perfectly colored hair/wig, on designer clothing, on a personal trainer, on high end makeup, etc.
You can spend two, three hours a day exercising, and an hour or more putting on makeup/getting dressed.
Or you can have other priorities.
You can spend time with your husband, or hosting people for shabbos and preparing for that, or with your children if you have, or with your friends, or saying tehillim, or reading a book/watching a movie, or organizing your house, or doing chesed, and and and....

I know a certain person who looks like a model from a vogue magazine. She looks like an airbrushed model! She is literally perfect, from her features, to her body, to her skin tone, to her hair, to her clothing.
I, on the other hand, look like a plain Jane next to her. Even when I dress up for shabbos etc I don't look half as good. Why? Because I don't spend the same amount of time and money on my appearance! I can't afford such designer clothing, I can't afford a spray tan and regular maintenance of it, I don't have patience to put on too much makeup and would never wear fake eyelashes (gross!), I like to eat chocolate and cookies and pizza - not just salad, and I like to work out, but not more than 30 minutes a day. (I find ways to work out while doing about my day, such as dancing while doing household chores, or walking to my destination).
So I'm happy. Because I made choices that took me to different places, and now she looks like a 10 while I'm maybe a 6 (in my own hypercritical opinion), but *I* made those choices.
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sneakermom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 2:56 pm
I just want to add, that she is distracting you from living your own life.

She is pulling you into this endless chase, in which she has the lead and you are feeling like a failure.

You need to realize she has the problem. It's crazy when you need to do this to people in order to feel good.

You need to find a way to not look at her, think of her, measure against her. Her, her, her.

It's feeding her narcissism and draining your self esteem.

She will always send you a message of inferiority. And you have to stop taking it at face value.

Put your energy elsewhere.
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amother
Forestgreen


 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 3:28 pm
Your life is likely a source of envy to her. Devoted husband and healthy cute children (I hope!) that you get to go home to each night, extended family and many holidays and celebrations all the time. Plus it sounds like you are probably smarter than her on top of that, and are always put together, even if not glamorous and showy. All she has is her looks. And those will not improve with age...
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 3:44 pm
OP, when I was 35 or even 45, I probably wouldn't have been able to commiserate very well. I would have probably offered up action-oriented advice: get a new job; go to the gym; you can do it, etc.

You mentioned that you're 51, though, and I think that opens up a somewhat different window. I find the 50s to be a really, really tough period for a lot of reasons. Some reasons are probably typical of people everywhere and others are unique to the frum Jewish world.

Almost every woman in her 50s is coming to grips with the fact that society worships youthful beauty. Just in case you don't get the message, magazine headlines will blare, "60 is the new 40" while you're standing in line at the drugstore to pay for anti-fungal creme, your DH's presecriptions, and support stockings.

You're probably dealing with kids getting married; kids not getting married; kids having babies; kids not having babies; kids thinking they know everything; kids not being able to figure out anything -- basically living the adage of "kleiner kinder, kleiner tsures; groise kinder, groise tzures."

If your parents are alive, they are likely aging and needing more of your attention and time than ever.

Whatever job or career you have has probably lost its luster, and that happens whether you're a cashier or a CEO.

So while the action-oriented advice is certainly good, I'd also urge you to re-frame the situation as follows:

While we have the concept of a "mid-life crisis," we too often reduce it to jokes about men with sportscars -- not about the reality that hits us all. In fact, the 50s is a time when our roles change significantly and during which more people make more and more demands. Here we are, shlepping through our days as best we can while meeting everyone's demands, and some Zumba-dancing, weight-trained coworker sashays around chatting about her tummy tuck. I think you deserve a medal for not killing her.

As for specific advice, other posters have given ideas. You'll know what resonates or not. But try to carve out a little time and energy to have fun and do things that are just for you. Not things that are good for you -- things that bring a smile to your face.

I will tell you something I do, not as advice, but as an example. I decided that every month I will spend approximately $100 on something special for myself. Can I afford it? Not entirely, but it has been totally worth it. Last month I bought some skin care products, and this month was Narciso Rodriguez L'absolu (which is incredible, IMHO). Whether I'm washing my face or spritzing fragrance, it's a little reminder that I'm worth more than dollar-store soap and the smell of cheap hand lotion.

Hope this is helpful, and PM me if you need help disposing of Ms. Tummy-Tuck's body!
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 3:55 pm
Wow Fox, I think that was your best post ever.
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 4:26 pm
Orchid wrote:
She is no more obsessed with her looks than you are obsessed with her looks.

You seem to be taking her good looks as a personal slap in the face to your average look. Like she to works out JUST so she can "shtuch" you that you're not fit. She told you not to have cosmetic surgery JUST so she can shtuch you with hers.

You also feel bad because she orders around in a condescending way, refuses to give up her responsibilities, etc. These are legitimate reasons for dreading work and wanting to to look elsewhere. And I think you should look elsewhere for this reason.

Try to separate this issue from her good looks. You can always find something to be jealous about, even in another job (which I recommend you look for). Maybe your new coworker at another job will have the most amazing, helpful, kind, prince of a husband who makes yours look like a shlub. Or the greatest kids in the world...and so on and so forth.


I don't take her good looks as a personal shtuch at all. I don't think she cares one bit about me and doesn't feel threatened at all from me.

She doesn't order me around in a condescending way at all. But tells me what to do and doesn't want me to share any responsibility with her.

I also don't have medical insurance for therapy. Don't live in states.
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amother
Scarlet


 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 5:18 pm
Fox wrote:
OP, when I was 35 or even 45, I probably wouldn't have been able to commiserate very well. I would have probably offered up action-oriented advice: get a new job; go to the gym; you can do it, etc.

You mentioned that you're 51, though, and I think that opens up a somewhat different window. I find the 50s to be a really, really tough period for a lot of reasons. Some reasons are probably typical of people everywhere and others are unique to the frum Jewish world.

Almost every woman in her 50s is coming to grips with the fact that society worships youthful beauty. Just in case you don't get the message, magazine headlines will blare, "60 is the new 40" while you're standing in line at the drugstore to pay for anti-fungal creme, your DH's presecriptions, and support stockings.

You're probably dealing with kids getting married; kids not getting married; kids having babies; kids not having babies; kids thinking they know everything; kids not being able to figure out anything -- basically living the adage of "kleiner kinder, kleiner tsures; groise kinder, groise tzures."

If your parents are alive, they are likely aging and needing more of your attention and time than ever.

Whatever job or career you have has probably lost its luster, and that happens whether you're a cashier or a CEO.

So while the action-oriented advice is certainly good, I'd also urge you to re-frame the situation as follows:

While we have the concept of a "mid-life crisis," we too often reduce it to jokes about men with sportscars -- not about the reality that hits us all. In fact, the 50s is a time when our roles change significantly and during which more people make more and more demands. Here we are, shlepping through our days as best we can while meeting everyone's demands, and some Zumba-dancing, weight-trained coworker sashays around chatting about her tummy tuck. I think you deserve a medal for not killing her.

As for specific advice, other posters have given ideas. You'll know what resonates or not. But try to carve out a little time and energy to have fun and do things that are just for you. Not things that are good for you -- things that bring a smile to your face.

I will tell you something I do, not as advice, but as an example. I decided that every month I will spend approximately $100 on something special for myself. Can I afford it? Not entirely, but it has been totally worth it. Last month I bought some skin care products, and this month was Narciso Rodriguez L'absolu (which is incredible, IMHO). Whether I'm washing my face or spritzing fragrance, it's a little reminder that I'm worth more than dollar-store soap and the smell of cheap hand lotion.

Hope this is helpful, and PM me if you need help disposing of Ms. Tummy-Tuck's body!

Not the OP, but thanks, I needed to hear this as I approach 50...
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crystal




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 5:26 pm
This is off topic but I feel you shouldn't have discussed this with your husband, why put negative thoughts into his head about your image? I'm sure you're beautiful to him which is what's most important, why jeopardize that?
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 5:35 pm
Omg fox 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

And sneaker mom u get it completely!! ANd u are right on!!


Thx all.
I actually doubt she envys my 'great life' outside of work. I have a special needs child and lots of financial stress in my life as well. But thx for thinking I might have something she vies for.....
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 7:57 pm
Crystal y is the most important thing that he thinks I'm beautiful?

Y isn't the most important thing that I feel beautiful, inside and out, which in my opinion is way more attractive and $exy to a guy than superficial beauty.

When im happy then he feel so very attracted to me.
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amother
Cerulean


 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 8:18 pm
amother wrote:
Crystal y is the most important thing that he thinks I'm beautiful?

Y isn't the most important thing that I feel beautiful, inside and out, which in my opinion is way more attractive and $exy to a guy than superficial beauty.

When im happy then he feel so very attracted to me.


The bigger question is why is beauty so important to you, and why do you feel so competitive with this coworker? She really triggers you and unlike sneakermom I think it's more you than her.
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 8:37 pm
I have not mentioned yet but my boss is gorgeous too! I know u wont beleive me but she is and I don't have one ounce of jealously towards her! I love her and respect her and think she's awesome. she IS. she is fair and treats me with a brain in my head. u see, I'm not obsessed with only external things

yup I am surrounded by beauty. it is a plastic surgeon's office.
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 9:06 pm
amother wrote:
The bigger question is why is beauty so important to you, and why do you feel so competitive with this coworker? She really triggers you and unlike sneakermom I think it's more you than her.


Because maybe beauty is important to her.
And it's not petty. Some people have to look beatiful. Hashem wants it that way.
To some, knowledge is important, to someone it's the arts, and to someone looking good is the thing that will make them breathe better and live a more fulfilling life. We tend to confuse regular beauty with Hollywood models. Being beautiful in a normal way is a gift.

I never realised the importance of beauty untill the following happened to me.
A very close friend of mine, was l"o very sick. Towards the end, she was on some sort of removable respirator. Whenever we visited we were instructed to remove it, and let her suck on a water lollipop. She had no appetite whatsoever.
One day, a woman she knew came to visit. She brought along two delicious looking ice creams. I was convinced my friend would not eat it. There were identical things in the freezer right there in the room. This woman took her coat off. She wore a little gray skirt, a fresh lime green shell, with a raspberry v-neck sweater on top. Her sheitel was beautiful, her face made up. I don't know if the way I illustrate it here, paints the exact picture. Let me simply say, she looked gorgeous!
She took those ice creams and presented them with such skill; Rivkale!! do you want a spoon of this?
Ahhhhh.... It was just so gusto!!
There was no way my friend could resist that! She slowly spoonfed her one spoon after the other. I can't explain how the atmosphere in the room changed.
To this day, whenever I think about this woman, I can't help but appreciate this wonderful gift called beauty. And I'm especially graetfull about the lesson she taught me; when you visit a sick person, even on thier deathbed r "l, wear the most beautiful clothing you have. Dont get dragged into that mood. Make sure to look gorgeous. Beauty has a potential to pump some life into that dark room.

There's a place for everything in this world.
Maybe if OP will be surrounded with more beauty, or like fox suggested, treat herself with a new perfume etc, she will have more brain space to cope with her challenging child. And with all else that's on her plate.
Hatzlocho OP.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 10:24 pm
Many years ago, a friend of mine had cancer. She was terrified of losing her looks.

She came to visit one day, when DD was around 3 years old. I was snuggling DD and told her "You're my beautiful girl". My friend broke into tears.

My friend said "My parents were both professors, and they always told me how smart I was. They never once said I was pretty - and my whole life I've been chasing men in order to feel attractive. Please, tell DD she's smart, but keep telling her how beautiful she is. You have no idea how important it is!"

I'd never thought of it that way before.
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amother
Hotpink


 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 10:28 pm
naomi2 wrote:
Op, I feel terrible for you it's really painful to feel like the only one "stuck" while everyone else moves ahead. Therapy is great when needed but I think nothing will help more than getting a new job. I know you've tried before but don't give up! You deserve to be happy every day and show what you are capable of doing.


Very wise and true what "Naomi2" and others write about you getting out that "shell" that you've become wedged in, and go look for a new job. New. A sense of renewal. Challenge. Wake up those dormant feelings of hope, dream, that s/one else posted.

But, IMHO, I feel that it is very important that you immediately start addressing those inferior and failure feelings that you have from childhood that are haunting you for almost 51 years?!

That's a very long time to carry on your shoulders - in your mind, such a heavy burden.

And as you go through life those negative feeling grow fatter and taller, b/c I'm quite sure
this smug, body-toned, seemingly Ms. know-it-all/has-it-all, co-worker of yours is not the only person in all your adult life that has made you feel inferior. I take that back. Not she is making you feel inferior. You are making yourself feel inferior b/c you haven't thrown out that trash that you are carrying still from childhood.

Now, let's picture, you do find a new job, and that job is the one of your dreams (I really
pray that you do, be'H.) And you plunge happily into your work, day after day.

Blissland.

Until, Bang! one day in comes a new co-worker, or secretary, or whatever post she will hold in this new office where you work.

She is dressed to the "T". High heels. Perfect make-up. Tall. Elegant. blah blah blah

I can vouch (though I hope I would be wrong) you'll take one look at her, and wham! something will sink within you.
Another few days pass, a week, perhaps two, WHAM! BAM! and slowly, could even be
quickly, you'll be back in "sadland" where the self-destructive, inferior, lowly feelings reign.

Youll be back with the depressed feelings that you have now.

You might have the challenging job of your dreams, but your core problem which is hounding you from young, will rear its head and horns again.
And after it takes effect on you, and you drown in misery every time you see this new has-it-all, it could also affect how you do your work.

So, to cut my megillah short -
two separate issues here:

- take in hand those dragons still from your youth, and fling them out of you. A professional can help you with this. I don't think one can do it oneself.

- find youself be'H a new job that will stir your creativity and talents.

I think, again imho, that BOTH of these will iy'H make you feel alive again and a happier person.

and just btw I wouldn't be surprised if this current co-worker of yours who is causing you so much anguish, and who is so obsessed with her how body looks, is not having some problems herself, maybe inferiority, or feeling lack of love e.tc e.tc e.t.c that, really poor her,
she has to keep on touching up and toning her body to look even better, to drown out her misery.

My apologies that this post is so long. I really feel for you. And may Hashem Bless you with only the best.
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 10:33 pm
But I don't get it....

I was told that I was pretty all my life, but never smart. My father especially valued external beauty (I think the only reason he married my beautiful mother) I on the other hand would have loved to be nurtured and valued for being a bright girl, who had potential to do well in school. I never felt smart. Always felt dumb. I was the class clown who made fun of herself and did very poorly in school
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 20 2017, 10:40 pm
amother wrote:
But I don't get it....

I was told that I was pretty all my life, but never smart. My father especially valued external beauty (I think the only reason he married my beautiful mother) I on the other hand would have loved to be nurtured and valued for being a bright girl, who had potential to do well in school. I never felt smart. Always felt dumb. I was the class clown who made fun of herself and did very poorly in school


I'm sorry you felt that way, it was very unfair of them to limit you like that.

It's the exact same thing. Parents should give their kids LOTS of positive messages. "You are strong, smart, funny, pretty, handsome, brave, loyal" etc.
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Fri, Jul 21 2017, 12:38 pm
I think there is a competitive vibe she gives off. Almost like she is thriving by outdoing you. And you're falling into her trap.

She's clipping your wings, while spreading out her own, from one side of the office to the other.

Usually people like her are narcissistic. They need constant attention. Crave control and seek to dominate.

It's very discreet. But your feelings explain what is happening. You feel you're nothing and she's everything.

This.

I have been thinking about what sneaker mom (and everyone else too) said. And now that you said it, I can see things so much more clear. She is very discreet and thats why nobody knows this about her but me. b/c I work with her so closely. and everyone adores her here - just today a patient walked in, looked at me and then saw her and said "now there's the beautiful girl I'm looking for!!' Pt would not look at me! inside I said screw you lady, but this is what I go through all the time.

I remember about 1.5 years ago we had a very pretty student working here and she got very chummy with my male boss. My co worker could not handle it! she was going to implode!!
I was like - "who cares? let this student make a fool of herself! why do you care? '
but she could not take it.

I could go on and on. thanks for all the chizuk ladies. it really helped me see things for what they are. nothing to do with me..... it's really all about her.

I walked into the office today with my head held high and despite the fact that I REALLY have loose skin in my abdomen, I say who cares???? it's fine!
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 21 2017, 12:42 pm
amother wrote:
I walked into the office today with my head held high and despite the fact that I REALLY have loose skin in my abdomen, I say who cares???? it's fine!


Applause Applause Applause
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